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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show i'm martin

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willis your host and we have an

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excellent show this evening i am so

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thrilled to have the three gentlemen

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that we have on

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um starting out with barry greenwood a

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longtime researcher started all the way

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back in 1964.

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jan aldrich not far behind him and dave

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marlar all at dave marlar's place i was

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supposed to be there unfortunately

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that was the

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international ufo congress went virtual

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so that kind of made my plans change for

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that one

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and but i was thrilled when david uh

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said that we could still do the show um

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the old-fashioned way the way i usually

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do anyway so they're joining us through

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the online studio

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and coming right up and we're going to

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be talking all about that i do want to

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thank everyone that does help out with

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the show behind the scenes

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uh everyone uh does a wonderful job i'm

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i'm blessed with that and also uh i want

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to thank out thank those people that

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help out with the show

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and uh the supporters of this show

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anyone can do that over at patreon

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and our uh patreon

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is right on our website the links right

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there this week uh by the way this is a

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monday night show and i do thank all

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these people that i see that are already

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joining in

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uh kind of i had to do it on today

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because tomorrow was not going to work

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out for the gentleman that we have

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so the blog this week is by charles lear

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as always airplane passenger ufo

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sightings it's a really good one you

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want to check that out over at

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podcastufo.com

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that's enough for me and i'm going to

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bring in my guests right now all three

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of them

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welcome to the show everyone

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hello hello here we go here we go and

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yes so glad to have you and um you know

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dave marlar i'm gonna put you on the

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spot right now because you probably

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forgot that i knew that it's your

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birthday uh i was hoping you would have

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forgot

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happy birthday dave thank you thank you

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very much and thanks for spending your

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special day

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with a bunch of old cartridges um and

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myself no i mean i was including myself

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i couldn't get for a better birthday

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gift uh you know two of my mentors in

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the field as well as a friend and

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colleague yourself so

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this is wonderful

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the only thing is they replace carter's

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with hunks that sounds better

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okay

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yeah

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all right that sounds good uh all right

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you hunks so uh why are you all gathered

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why are you all gathered together this

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is it well first of all i really think

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you know as i say every week and the the

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longtime listener probably gets tired of

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hearing me say it but we have new

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listeners to the show constantly because

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and i know that because i'm getting

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emails

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almost every week from someone new so

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let's uh let's do a round table as far

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as introducing ourselves we'll start uh

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we'll start with you jan since you're

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okay

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um

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i have a

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history degree from the university of

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maryland

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i spent uh 50 years stealing from the

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government

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uh 25 years in the

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army

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i've been interested in ufos since uh

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junior high

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so that's back in the uh

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and

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basically what i've been doing for 50

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years is collecting material

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and now it's time to put it all together

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and get it filed and get it scanned

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and that's kind of what you're doing

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that's part of what you're doing there

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correct that's what that's what we're

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doing here

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all right dave it's your turn

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yeah uh you know david marlar

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independent ufo researcher historian

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really following the footsteps of these

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two gentlemen who really paved the way

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along with many other great credible ufo

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researchers and historians i got

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involved in 1990

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in the subject actively had been

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interested since i was a young kid but

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uh not really till 1990 to get involved

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and really uh touching on what we're

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doing right now martin

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when i first got involved in ufos i

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rather naively thought i could go to the

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local libraries and look at books on

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ufos and much to my disappointment there

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were few if any ufo books at the local

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libraries and

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rather naively

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the the thought crossed my mind well

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i'll have to just create my own library

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little did i realize 31 years later it

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would get to this point uh and we're in

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the process of still collecting new

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material new information but

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uh to jan's point you know we're here

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really trying to organize the material

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scan it

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it's nice to have a physical archive

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wherever that may be but realistically

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we want to make sure this information is

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readily available to the worldwide ufo

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community and the ultimate goal is not

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just to amass the physical materials but

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to jan's point get to the point where

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we're now digitizing it and eventually

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making it free and available to the

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worldwide ufo community because

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with all due respect to my colleagues

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here at the table as well as myself

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there's a lot smarter people than us

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that might be able to piece together

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these disparate elements regarding the

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ufo history and the ufo subject and

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maybe begin to come closer to gleaning

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answers to what this phenomenon's all

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about

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excellent

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all right you're up barry

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yeah well i've been investigating and

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researching ufos since 1964.

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i had a long-term interest in the

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history of the subject

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i could divide what i've done in it into

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two parts the first part might be

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considered government historical

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where in the late 70s i began to use the

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freedom of information act with a few

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other researchers to

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release government papers on ufos

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project blue book had closed in 1969 but

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it was clear evidence that

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the government was still doing work on

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the subject so we use the the foia

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to

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that at least a dozen different agencies

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records on the subject and it was quite

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amazing what was coming out

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each release led to more releases

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because of the information contained in

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the in the earlier information so

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we amassed somewhere around 4 000 pages

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up to 1984

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and at that point we decided to do a

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book

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explaining

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what was coming out and i wrote it with

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lawrence faucets called clear intent

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later called the ufo cover-up

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and then uh

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the foia became more and more difficult

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to use with succeeding administrations

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and i decided to shift over into

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ufo history and

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from that archiving uh to attempt to

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preserve the historical record on the

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subject which was in

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great danger of disappearing

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due to

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neglect uh

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people passing on not leaving their

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records to others to take care of and

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and we needed a not only archiving but

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we needed a network

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to make sure that that uh

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information circulated freely i i call

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this new project uh preservation and

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dissemination

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we need to scan and preserve the records

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first and then once that's done to

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disseminate to interested parties so

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that they can see what the history of

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the subject was all about

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right and uh i don't know who wants to

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to handle this part of it but

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how do you do you feel that the

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digitizing of this is going to perhaps

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draw the younger

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enthusiast

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as interest because it's digital

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um or dave let me ask you this do you

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have any young people has there been any

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young researchers interested enough to

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actually make a trip there

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uh a few

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definitely a few but uh to your point

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you know martin we're concerned about

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the future of ufology in the sense that

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uh and and i really would uh take this

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this statement and extrapolate it with

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history in general

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most people aren't interested in history

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whether it's ufo history world war ii

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history there are those historians those

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enthusiasts but admittedly you know

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quite often i get asked at conferences

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what's the latest greatest in ufo

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research and i don't care what's new i

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care what's credible and to be quite

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honest some of the most credible cases

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are 30 40 50 years old in the

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government's own files and in the you

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know historic uh dr jl and heinekos

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files here that we have

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and uh so i think it's incumbent upon us

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to really sift through all of this

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decades worth of material and really

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distill it down to what are the most

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credible cases uh admittedly and we

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always say this but i think we always

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have to say this the vast majority of

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ufo sightings can be easily dismissed as

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meteors and satellites and atmospheric

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conditions that that yield unusual you

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know uh visual imagery or optics or

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airplanes seen at a distance um but

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there is that small subset that

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definitely deserves to be investigated

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and i would say that since the pentagon

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report this year that we are starting to

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see mainstream scientists and scientific

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organizations take an interest dr avi

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loeb of harvard as well as nasa has even

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started looking into the subject so

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we're seeing a sea change within the

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so could i hear that yeah absolutely

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sure go right ahead

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our

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uh that's not the only one but that's

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the main one

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we are not were interested in uh hunting

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for aliens or

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um

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speculating on what's going on

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uh you you

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can't really study ufos you can study

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ufo reports

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but

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the united states air force and project

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blue book were real things that

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uh

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information

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uh

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records

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and uh

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um

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interviews that you can study

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and of course the ufo witnesses

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and other

286
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,000
organizations that were interested in

287
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:07,360
official organizations in a lot of cases

288
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:10,959
that were interested in the subject so

289
00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:19,110
have a reservoir of ufo cases

290
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,560
that hopefully somebody in the future

291
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:24,560
and hopefully somebody with a lot of

292
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,240
scientific

293
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:27,839
uh

294
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:36,639
is is far more competent than we are in

295
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,440
play

296
00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:39,519
pacing things together

297
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,680
they will have a record that they can

298
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:43,519
call on

299
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,000
right right um

300
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:48,639
i'm gonna throw this out to you just

301
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:50,079
because it's a little frustrating and i

302
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:52,480
don't know who would like to handle this

303
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,160
but um one of the things in the report

304
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,560
i believe um i did read through it it

305
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,480
was some when it first came out

306
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:02,560
but it seemed like they were not going

307
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:04,959
to investigate earlier cases because

308
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:07,360
they say they didn't have the equipment

309
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:10,320
and technology to to really um

310
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:13,839
gain good data from that and my

311
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:16,639
my argument with that whole thing is

312
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:17,440
one

313
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:21,519
amazing cases that are 30 and 40 years

314
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,480
old

315
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,399
and two

316
00:13:28,150 --> 00:13:26,399
they often say well

317
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,160
these things that peop the pilots are

318
00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:30,079
seeing could be russian they could be

319
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:32,800
chinese and they throw out all the old

320
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,440
cases where things were doing 25 000

321
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,079
miles an hour and stopping on a dime so

322
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:40,880
i don't know if anyone wants to uh take

323
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,160
you know just kind of uh elaborate on on

324
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:46,880
what's frustrating

325
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,519
i would just add to that uh that i've

326
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:51,760
always stated in my lectures do not look

327
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,560
at one ufo case in a vacuum we have

328
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,959
decades worth of worldwide reports and i

329
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,320
believe one of the strongest most

330
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:00,399
compelling things we can do

331
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:03,279
uh in absence of having hard physical

332
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:05,040
evidence is looking for patterns in the

333
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:07,519
data i believe patterns in the data are

334
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:10,000
suggestive of a real phenomenon whatever

335
00:14:13,829 --> 00:14:11,680
that is uh you know it's still the

336
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:13,839
elusive question what what are we

337
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,959
dealing with

338
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:17,279
but to your point uh there's what's in

339
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:19,120
the pentagon report and what's not

340
00:14:22,790 --> 00:14:21,600
what's not in the report is any modicum

341
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,800
of history

342
00:14:27,189 --> 00:14:24,720
if you were to read that report and you

343
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:27,199
never heard of ufos before you would

344
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:30,720
think that this phenomenon began in 2004

345
00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:32,560
based on the time frame of cases

346
00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,639
military cases that they were looking at

347
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:36,399
and of course your audience know that's

348
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:37,920
not the case

349
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:40,880
there is a wealth of information as

350
00:14:45,269 --> 00:14:43,600
barry has shown with his research

351
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:45,279
looking at the government's own records

352
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,720
you don't have to look at tabloids you

353
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,959
don't have to trust ufo investigators

354
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:51,040
look at the declassified documents that

355
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,720
exist through barry greenwood's efforts

356
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,440
and later john greenwald's efforts in

357
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:57,360
getting these documents released and

358
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:59,440
made available to the general public

359
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:01,440
they're highly compelling cases in these

360
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,600
in these matters and then when we start

361
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:06,240
collecting this data you do start to

362
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:08,399
correlate i think as jan alluded to

363
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:10,800
newspaper accounts with civilian ufo

364
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:13,440
investigations with government documents

365
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:16,000
and what i'm working on currently are

366
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:18,000
vintage archival interview recordings

367
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:20,720
with ufo witnesses when you synthesize

368
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:23,440
all these disparate elements it helps

369
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:25,600
paint a picture it adds color it adds

370
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:26,399
depth

371
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:29,600
to this phenomenon that we're looking at

372
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:31,920
and i think it's somewhat ludicrous that

373
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:34,480
they arbitrarily want to discount all

374
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:37,680
this information prior to 2004 when they

375
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:39,199
themselves have never even looked to see

376
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:40,959
what data we're sitting on

377
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:41,920
and so

378
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,839
i find it you know a rather arbitrary

379
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:45,600
way of approaching the subject i

380
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,600
certainly encourage anyone to come into

381
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:49,600
the field especially if they have that

382
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,839
scientific acumen to bring to the table

383
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:53,839
to look at this phenomenon but i think

384
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,920
they're doing themselves a disservice uh

385
00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,519
you know at the very beginning by just

386
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,680
arbitrarily ignoring the decades worth

387
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:01,440
of information that we have

388
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:03,199
yeah anyone else want to

389
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:06,000
okay here is a uh

390
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:08,880
a report from the korean war

391
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,519
in uh 31

392
00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:13,600
may 1952

393
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:16,000
they brought over the highest tech

394
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:18,639
aircraft they could from the united

395
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,509
and they didn't want the uh

396
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:25,920
chinese or north koreans to get it so it

397
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:29,040
was behind the lines so

398
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:33,120
uh aerial objects that penetrated the uh

399
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:36,639
the lines were that this these guys took

400
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:38,480
care of it they had the

401
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:40,959
at the time it was the highest tech that

402
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:43,680
existed f-94

403
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:45,360
uh

404
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:46,560
aircraft

405
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:49,440
uh it could go faster than others and it

406
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:51,199
it had the uh

407
00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:55,040
uh afterburners so it it could uh

408
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:58,240
supply more speed it had radar

409
00:17:02,069 --> 00:17:00,079
and these were the

410
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:02,079
the best trained people they sent over

411
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:02,959
with

412
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:05,280
one night

413
00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:08,720
uh one f-94s

414
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:10,400
uh

415
00:17:14,549 --> 00:17:13,199
kind and so i saw a light

416
00:17:17,270 --> 00:17:14,559
and they

417
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:17,280
uh went to uh

418
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:19,280
uh investigate

419
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:21,919
and this will sound familiar if you

420
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:24,240
listen to the

421
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:25,120
uh

422
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:30,400
flavor and his

423
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,000
companions

424
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,039
from the f-18s they started descending

425
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:36,960
towards the light

426
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,080
and the light mirrored their image

427
00:17:44,830 --> 00:17:42,240
another was coming up

428
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:44,840
as they're going down

429
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,160
uh and uh

430
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,640
it was a close approach case

431
00:17:54,549 --> 00:17:52,240
it came head-on

432
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:54,559
at them several times

433
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,559
within 50 to 100

434
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,320
feet

435
00:18:01,110 --> 00:18:00,080
um

436
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:01,120
uh

437
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,160
guy he said

438
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:11,120
he after that encounter as fast as they

439
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,320
were going

440
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:14,720
and as uh

441
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:17,200
um scared as they were

442
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:19,039
he was sweating

443
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,000
um

444
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:23,919
they investigated they sent over

445
00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:26,320
investigators from japan who were

446
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:30,160
intelligence people and uh

447
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,720
the colonel asked him he says

448
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,480
you get many of these and he says yes we

449
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:36,160
get a lot

450
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:40,240
and but yours is the best aircraft case

451
00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:43,280
at night because you got the closest to

452
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:44,799
these ufos

453
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,559
now

454
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:48,320
we don't have the high tech that we have

455
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:52,480
in 2004 but it's this case is similar

456
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:54,720
and it was with the highest tech they

457
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:58,080
had in 1952

458
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,760
that to me

459
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:02,160
you put the two together and you say

460
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:06,789
yeah our technology has evolved but

461
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:09,440
these ufos are still faster

462
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:12,400
and more maneuverable

463
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:14,080
absolutely

464
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:15,360
um

465
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:17,760
anything uh from you on that barry at

466
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:19,200
all yeah

467
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:21,840
the uap task force report was released

468
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:23,760
during the summer time and

469
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:27,120
it made what i thought were some pretty

470
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:30,240
remarkable conclusions in saying that

471
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:32,960
that the phenomenon was real

472
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,559
and was a national security threat

473
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:39,280
i had decided that 40 years ago when i

474
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:41,840
wrote content with larry fawcett that

475
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:43,919
the documents then

476
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:46,559
alluded to national security threats and

477
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:47,360
a

478
00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:52,320
more so uh they

479
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:54,480
wrote a commentary

480
00:19:59,909 --> 00:19:57,360
on the task force report and

481
00:20:01,510 --> 00:19:59,919
one of the things that had been included

482
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:01,520
at the end was

483
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:02,559
a letter

484
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:05,120
that was written in 1947

485
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:08,880
and signed by general nathan twining

486
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:11,039
for the air force and

487
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:12,960
he was saying the phenomenon was real

488
00:20:16,470 --> 00:20:14,960
and not fictitious and there was very

489
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,480
concern about it

490
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:19,120
that was at the dawn of the modern

491
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,440
flying saucer era

492
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:23,760
it's amazing how

493
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:25,840
70-plus years have passed and they're

494
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:27,280
pretty much acknowledging that the

495
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:29,039
phenomenon is doing the same thing it

496
00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:30,799
did back then

497
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:33,679
yes i had i had

498
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:35,760
kevin randall on right

499
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,440
the day that they released that or of

500
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:39,360
the week i should say that they

501
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:41,679
released that he said you could almost

502
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:44,240
go you know cut and paste from the

503
00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:47,600
twining in a lot of uh in a lot of ways

504
00:20:50,789 --> 00:20:49,440
you know it's almost like a remake of

505
00:20:52,870 --> 00:20:50,799
that uh

506
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:52,880
just letting the listener know i have a

507
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,559
very interesting guest coming up he's a

508
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:58,799
professor emeritus of art

509
00:21:02,789 --> 00:21:01,200
in arizona his name is alfred

510
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:02,799
i have his last name i'm not sure

511
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:04,799
exactly how to pronounce it

512
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:06,400
but i'll know that by the show he'll be

513
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:08,480
on october 19th

514
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:12,720
and uh he had two encounters in 1966

515
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:14,159
in vietnam

516
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:17,120
while he was aboard the uss wiederberg

517
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:19,120
um so this is going to he's going to be

518
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:20,559
the first time that he's speaking out

519
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:22,640
about that that's coming up in october

520
00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:25,760
19th so there are many many military

521
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,320
encounters i'm very excited to have

522
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:30,480
someone talk that was involved in the

523
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:32,400
vietnam war he's going to be talking

524
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:35,600
about an encounter i can't wait for that

525
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,840
so that's uh coming up in october on

526
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:39,760
october 19th

527
00:21:43,270 --> 00:21:41,360
and so

528
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,280
uh what about people

529
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,200
i mentioned earlier i know you want to

530
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:46,960
ha i know you actually have someone that

531
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:48,000
traveled

532
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,760
uh from the east coast there just

533
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:51,679
arrived just before the show

534
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,840
um and welcome i'll say jay welcome uh i

535
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,000
know you're listening in so does that

536
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,480
happen a lot do you get people from

537
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,799
all over visiting from all over yeah

538
00:22:06,549 --> 00:22:04,720
that's one of the the wonderful things

539
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,559
is not only being able to assemble all

540
00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:08,480
this material but make it available to

541
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:10,480
researchers and interested parties as

542
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:12,720
well as production groups and media i

543
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:15,360
might add uh about two months ago now i

544
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:18,000
believe it's been time flies uh we had

545
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:20,159
ross colthardt here

546
00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:21,679
for his uh

547
00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,320
seven news uh spotlight uh documentary

548
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:26,159
the phenomenon and in fact i was sitting

549
00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:27,679
right here with ross

550
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,840
and uh was really it was a pleasure

551
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:31,200
meeting him he was really a true

552
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:33,600
gentleman true professional and was

553
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:35,039
really happy to be part of that that

554
00:22:37,909 --> 00:22:36,480
production which i think really had high

555
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:37,919
production value to be quite honest

556
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,480
compared to most

557
00:22:45,190 --> 00:22:42,880
and ross takes the subject extremely

558
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:45,200
seriously i i can assure you from having

559
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:47,440
uh very lengthy private conversations

560
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:49,120
with him but

561
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:51,679
you know they want to be able to talk

562
00:22:54,390 --> 00:22:52,960
about the history they want to be able

563
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:54,400
to show the history

564
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,000
and you know something that i think

565
00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:58,159
barry and jan and i have discussed in

566
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:59,760
the last week or so

567
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,760
it's great that we want to digitize this

568
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:03,600
information and by the way i want to

569
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:04,880
mention we've also been working

570
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,640
collaboratively with rod dyke up in

571
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,360
seattle who has a vast ufo historical

572
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:11,679
archive so i've kind of turned us the

573
00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:15,200
four amigos uh in this whole endeavor

574
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:16,960
and we were just discussing with rod

575
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:19,360
that you know it's really important to

576
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,799
digitize it but for production crews

577
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,559
the last thing they want to see is an

578
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,320
aging researcher sitting in front of a

579
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,400
computer pulling up pdfs

580
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:31,200
uh they love to see that tattered

581
00:23:36,470 --> 00:23:33,919
government documents stamped top secret

582
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:36,480
or confidential than crossed out and

583
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:39,840
then have the actual blue pin signature

584
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:42,640
and have you know the patina to that old

585
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:43,600
paper

586
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,440
that's great for production value that's

587
00:23:49,750 --> 00:23:47,360
they want those visual elements to help

588
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,760
tell that story and so yes it's great

589
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:51,360
we're digitizing but it's also important

590
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:52,880
to have these original documents

591
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:55,279
especially when people question

592
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:56,960
you're saying this where did you get it

593
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,799
from and it's so gratifying to pull out

594
00:24:03,669 --> 00:24:00,480
that government document the original

595
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:03,679
from 1952 and say here it is

596
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:05,600
i love that that's the type of thing i'm

597
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,480
into

598
00:24:11,190 --> 00:24:08,400
as uh my background

599
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:11,200
um has a lot to do with that so i'm

600
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,880
gonna ask people and chat there's not

601
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:14,400
gonna be any phone calls today we just

602
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:17,200
don't have that capability but for

603
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:18,960
people in chat that want to pose a

604
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:21,360
question please put it in all caps to

605
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,039
make sure that i'll catch it but here's

606
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:25,440
one from facebook that came in

607
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,120
so just why are they listed as a

608
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:29,039
security threat when they have never

609
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:32,000
been hostile towards the military

610
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:33,360
anyone want to

611
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,320
tackle that well they have

612
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:38,320
when i did clear intent there are all

613
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:41,919
sorts of indications of

614
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:44,480
missile-based nuclear-based penetrations

615
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:45,360
by

616
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,080
lights helicopters unknown helicopters i

617
00:24:53,269 --> 00:24:50,159
should say unknown aircraft

618
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,279
and at one point the government had

619
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:56,320
declared a security option three alert

620
00:25:01,990 --> 00:24:58,640
for all of these intrusions

621
00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:02,000
and uh i had tried to find

622
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,559
what was at the bottom of all of these

623
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:06,720
uh

624
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,080
military was extremely upset with it

625
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,720
but uh to this day we haven't located

626
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,039
any final report on it if one was

627
00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:18,799
written it's being well

628
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:19,919
hidden

629
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:22,080
uh and there's there are all sorts of

630
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,400
incidents through history of military

631
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:25,440
jet

632
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:28,320
and aircraft chasing strange objects

633
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:31,440
sometimes shooting at them

634
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,440
unsuccessfully obviously or i think we

635
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:35,039
would have had the answer to the

636
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:37,440
phenomenon by now but still

637
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:40,159
the national security threat has existed

638
00:25:45,190 --> 00:25:42,159
since the early days of the topic and

639
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:45,200
it's still there according to the uap

640
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,360
task force i think we need to qualify

641
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:49,919
that though martin and we need to insert

642
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,559
potential threat

643
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:54,240
it's a it has to be viewed as a

644
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:57,039
potential threat if you have unknown

645
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:59,600
aerial vehicles performing exotic flight

646
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,360
characteristics that can fly rings

647
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:03,600
around your state-of-the-art aircraft

648
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,080
that are violating military airspace

649
00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:08,880
commercial airspace coming dangerously

650
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:11,440
close to military assets and

651
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:14,400
commercial uh air traffic uh it has to

652
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:16,080
be viewed as a potential threat until

653
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:17,360
they have a better understanding of what

654
00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:18,960
they're dealing with

655
00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:21,200
the uh go ahead

656
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:22,840
in uh

657
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,480
1960

658
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:26,559
uh the national investigations committee

659
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:28,799
on aerial phenomena sent a confidential

660
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,039
report to congress every congressman

661
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:33,440
every senator got one

662
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:36,159
one of the lead cases in there

663
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:38,559
was about a uh

664
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:39,679
uh

665
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:41,919
transport aircraft a military

666
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:44,559
transporter aircraft

667
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:47,600
uh flying over the pacific

668
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:53,590
it's not in blue book however

669
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,120
night camp got a

670
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,520
copy somewhere it was not classified

671
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:59,039
they got a copy

672
00:27:02,070 --> 00:27:00,640
the uh

673
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:02,080
uh it's

674
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:05,200
in the files it's in the us

675
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:09,039
uh intelli uh intelligence command at

676
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,840
fort eustis that's where that's where we

677
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:12,960
found that

678
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,120
it's also in kyo's book because he got a

679
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:18,000
copy of it he put it in this report

680
00:27:25,909 --> 00:27:22,480
the pilot says i felt i had been

681
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:30,070
wow and they picked it up on radar also

682
00:27:34,830 --> 00:27:31,760
um

683
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:34,840
so they almost had in

684
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:41,990
hearings on that

685
00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:44,320
because one of the things is

686
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:46,320
at the time

687
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:49,039
the reaction time for

688
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,919
you know to uh launch missiles and and

689
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:53,440
aircraft

690
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:56,080
was it was very low and

691
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:01,110
as far as detecting an attack it was it

692
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,080
was you didn't have that much lead time

693
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:06,960
it's not much better now but

694
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,159
the nightcap thing was a ufo could be

695
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:12,240
mistaken

696
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,200
for an attack and we could be launching

697
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,880
a a

698
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,720
counter strike

699
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:20,559
uh based on

700
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,399
the way these ufos act

701
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,320
uh especially if they're coming over the

702
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:28,480
polls towards

703
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:31,600
towards the united states

704
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:33,279
so they almost had congressional

705
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:34,960
hearings and they had

706
00:28:40,389 --> 00:28:36,320
they had the

707
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:40,399
armed forces subcommittee in 65

708
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:42,960
actually do hearings and then they had a

709
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:46,159
seminar in the astronautic science

710
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:47,440
committee

711
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:54,470
interesting interesting that getting

712
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:57,600
back just quickly i i failed to mention

713
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,480
that the a guest that's going to be on

714
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:03,039
that had the encounters one of them

715
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,320
the craft was right over the deck

716
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,720
and they were firing they decided to

717
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,320
fire upon it

718
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:12,720
fired uh tracer bullets which were

719
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,640
ricocheting and bouncing back to the

720
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:16,720
deck and they all had to take cover

721
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:18,399
it's going to be uh that's going to be a

722
00:29:23,029 --> 00:29:19,279
very

723
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:23,039
interesting talk on again on the 19th so

724
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,720
one of the one of the thoughts i have

725
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:26,880
now these are just thoughts and i'd like

726
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:29,919
to get your opinions on this this

727
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:31,120
thought is

728
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:34,399
that most likely in my opinion

729
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:37,440
the military doesn't really know

730
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,039
what this is and they may be a little

731
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:41,279
bit agitated that it's getting so much

732
00:29:44,149 --> 00:29:42,559
attention

733
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:44,159
um because

734
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:46,559
they can't promise us that they can

735
00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:48,960
protect us from whatever it is

736
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:51,360
and if they say we don't know and we

737
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:53,440
can't you know we have no idea what's

738
00:29:56,310 --> 00:29:54,640
going on

739
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:56,320
uh i just think that there's only so

740
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,240
much that's going to come out

741
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,559
for that reason i wondered if anyone

742
00:30:06,310 --> 00:30:02,799
would like to uh

743
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,320
talk about uh your own opinion on that

744
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,399
all right i'm sure that there are many

745
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:10,159
many hidden incidents out there that

746
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,000
we'll never hear about i

747
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:14,480
i believe documents uh

748
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:16,399
have already been destroyed relating to

749
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:19,520
ufo reports they recall a

750
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,799
reproduction of one and in in

751
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:25,760
the publication of nycap where

752
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:27,679
uh

753
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:29,840
it was clearly marked

754
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:31,760
for destruction that

755
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:34,399
as far as i know it was never released

756
00:30:39,909 --> 00:30:38,000
other reports have been said to uh uh

757
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,919
suddenly disappeared out of the files

758
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,440
they can't find them anymore if you

759
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:43,360
follow foia requests

760
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:46,720
uh mysteriously they're gone uh their

761
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:49,679
indications and the release files of

762
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:52,000
numerous documents

763
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,760
relating to sensitive incidents that

764
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:57,840
haven't been released in subsequent foia

765
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:00,960
requests specifically for them

766
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:02,720
again they're gone whether they were

767
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,240
destroyed or misplaced or

768
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:08,320
stuffed under an auditorium stage

769
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,240
somewhere in a military base it's hard

770
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:12,240
to say but there's certainly a lot of

771
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:13,919
information this

772
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,559
i i've gone through a lot of uh ufo

773
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:18,399
cases and

774
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:21,760
looked at reference documents or

775
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:24,799
things like that i have 1100

776
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,519
my databases in 1100

777
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:29,200
cases

778
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,480
we also have the uh each intelligence

779
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:34,640
report that goes through the

780
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:36,159
pentagon

781
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:37,679
used to be

782
00:31:41,110 --> 00:31:39,679
uh

783
00:31:41,909 --> 00:31:41,120
it still is

784
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:41,919
uh

785
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:43,600
serial numbered

786
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:45,760
and they produce a reference now it's

787
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,840
carried on computers so we can't get at

788
00:31:53,269 --> 00:31:49,919
it but it used to be on

789
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,279
little index cards about this size

790
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:55,039
and it had

791
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:57,039
the serial number the

792
00:32:01,669 --> 00:32:00,480
title of the case where it came from

793
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:01,679
um

794
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:04,640
what classification it was who some

795
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:08,559
places where it went to the cia got five

796
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:11,440
copies of every case that came through

797
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,240
the pentagon and then they say oh we

798
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,720
only have 900 pages

799
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:19,440
anyways the database is

800
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:20,399
uh

801
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:23,519
nowhere close to complete

802
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:24,399
and

803
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:28,559
see if there's another a reference to

804
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,279
another report and the

805
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:33,679
database if we had more people working

806
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:34,640
on us

807
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:38,399
the database would grow

808
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:40,159
now i was able to go down to the

809
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:41,360
archives

810
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:46,640
have collections of intelligence reports

811
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:50,720
and withdraw a number of these reports

812
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:53,919
they uh they're not in blue book

813
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:56,000
sometimes we find out they are in blue

814
00:33:00,310 --> 00:32:56,880
book

815
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,320
um but they're mislabeled or

816
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:02,240
the way blue book titled them is

817
00:33:05,269 --> 00:33:04,080
different than the way

818
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:05,279
the case is

819
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,559
titled on the index card so it's a it's

820
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:10,799
a sifting thing to find these things

821
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:13,679
sometimes we find out that

822
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:18,000
like uh 1947 january says uh

823
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,389
mystery sightings in greenland it's

824
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:26,880
nothing about ufos you would think maybe

825
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:28,720
it would but it doesn't contain a thing

826
00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:30,640
about ufos it's other

827
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,559
it's another it's other subjects

828
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,080
intelligence

829
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,640
but in a lot of cases i've come up with

830
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:38,799
new reports

831
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:41,279
that somehow never got into blue book

832
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:43,120
for some reason

833
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:44,720
yeah martin i think

834
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,880
i think with regard to the subject the

835
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:48,399
fundamental question that we should all

836
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:50,399
be asking and it's amazing how many ufo

837
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,399
researchers don't even ask this question

838
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:54,480
in light of the pentagon report

839
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:56,000
why now

840
00:34:03,029 --> 00:34:01,200
with regard to their position regarding

841
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:03,039
the subject that is the fundamental

842
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:05,279
question we should all be asking and i

843
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,799
think that is really at the heart of the

844
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:09,280
matter now there's a lot of conspiracy

845
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,040
theorists within the ufo community for

846
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,200
those that know me i am not one of them

847
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:15,760
uh i prefer to look for verifiable

848
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,639
factual well-documented evidence and

849
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:20,560
it's interesting the conspiracy

850
00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:23,280
theorists whether ufos or otherwise they

851
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,159
always view or frame the government as

852
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,720
uh in the know the government knows

853
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,320
what's going on and they're keeping it

854
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:32,560
secret the government recover the crash

855
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,639
vehicle in roswell we back engineered it

856
00:34:37,829 --> 00:34:36,159
we know why they're here we're now back

857
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,839
engineering ufos and that's all this

858
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,760
advanced technology

859
00:34:43,349 --> 00:34:41,440
they give the government too much credit

860
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:43,359
with all due respect all conspiracy

861
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:44,800
theorists

862
00:34:48,629 --> 00:34:46,879
i believe the quote-unquote government

863
00:34:50,149 --> 00:34:48,639
cover-up based on 31 years of

864
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:50,159
investigating the subject and i would

865
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:51,520
defer to my colleagues to get their

866
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,119
opinion on this

867
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:56,159
all indicators uh point to the fact they

868
00:35:00,310 --> 00:34:58,560
don't know what they're dealing with yes

869
00:35:01,430 --> 00:35:00,320
there's something there they don't know

870
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:01,440
what it is

871
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,480
but

872
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:04,240
going back to what i said why now are

873
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:06,640
they having this change in attitude

874
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,720
towards the subject publicly not in

875
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:10,320
private but publicly

876
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:14,160
i think the answer might lie in the 2019

877
00:35:18,069 --> 00:35:16,560
navy spokesman statements when they if

878
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,079
you recall

879
00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:20,400
came out with a news article that stated

880
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,560
they are now formulating official policy

881
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,240
and procedures for naval personnel to

882
00:35:27,990 --> 00:35:26,160
report uaps

883
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:28,000
it goes on to state in that article i

884
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:30,079
think this might be a little glimmer

885
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:30,960
into

886
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:33,520
the rationale behind all of this they

887
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:35,920
stated due to the increased frequency

888
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:38,320
that they are seeing with regard to uap

889
00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:39,599
phenomenon

890
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:42,480
within restricted military operations

891
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:43,599
areas

892
00:35:47,589 --> 00:35:45,680
i'm just going to put forth this idea i

893
00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,599
could be completely wrong

894
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:49,920
what if they're seeing this

895
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:52,160
increase this ever increasing trend of

896
00:35:56,150 --> 00:35:54,160
activity around military operations

897
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:56,160
areas and what if

898
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:58,640
that trend continues it's going to get

899
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:01,760
to a point if that trend continues where

900
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:04,160
trying to dispel the subject cover up

901
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:06,480
the subject is untenable they're not

902
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,800
going to be able to do it so to use the

903
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:10,880
old government term rather than the tail

904
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:12,800
wag the dog i think they want to get

905
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:15,440
ahead of the messaging and be in control

906
00:36:18,550 --> 00:36:16,880
of the messaging with regard to the

907
00:36:21,349 --> 00:36:18,560
subject yeah

908
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,359
another thing too i am very curious

909
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,599
about the fact that the navy is taking

910
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:25,359
the lead on all of this

911
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,400
uh what happened to the air force yeah

912
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,839
yeah i thought i was wondering that

913
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,119
myself

914
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,800
it's very strange i thought of that

915
00:36:38,069 --> 00:36:34,880
supposed to be covering a lot more of

916
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:38,079
the skies than than perhaps the navy

917
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:41,119
and the army even the army was open to

918
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:43,359
one thing the air force uh held slay

919
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:45,200
over it for many many years and now the

920
00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:46,640
navy's in charge

921
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:48,240
we haven't heard much of anything from

922
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:50,800
the air force except in the task force

923
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:53,200
report it says that they recently

924
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:55,839
started to coordinate their information

925
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:58,560
yeah but we haven't seen a flicker of

926
00:37:01,990 --> 00:36:59,599
that yet

927
00:37:04,069 --> 00:37:02,000
to very point martin he brings up a

928
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:04,079
really good point because also

929
00:37:07,990 --> 00:37:05,760
it's very interesting when you look at

930
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:08,000
the conclusions of the pentagon report

931
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:10,160
and contrast that with the three

932
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:12,560
conclusions that justified shutting down

933
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,760
blue book

934
00:37:18,390 --> 00:37:15,440
for those that may recall one of the

935
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,400
conclusions of project blue book no ufo

936
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:20,560
has demonstrated any threat to national

937
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:24,079
security fast forward to 2021 as barry

938
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:26,640
alluded to earlier they stated that uaps

939
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:28,640
may constitute a threat to national

940
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:31,599
security and air safety

941
00:37:36,310 --> 00:37:33,760
so you have a complete contradiction the

942
00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:36,320
navy versus the air force uh they also

943
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:38,000
go on to state in blue book one of the

944
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:41,119
conclusions that you ufos have haven't

945
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:42,640
demonstrated any physical

946
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:45,200
characteristics or properties that uh

947
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:46,960
regarding scientific principles that we

948
00:37:51,030 --> 00:37:49,200
don't understand if you read between the

949
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:51,040
lines in the pentagon report they're

950
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:52,560
suggesting we don't know how these

951
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:54,320
things are operating and they clearly

952
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,480
show some type of exotic

953
00:38:00,550 --> 00:37:58,720
physics that's at play as far as how

954
00:38:02,550 --> 00:38:00,560
they fly so there's yet another

955
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,560
contradiction comparing the navy to the

956
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:05,280
air force and so his i know people were

957
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:06,960
disappointed in that there wasn't much

958
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:08,880
meat to the report but two things we got

959
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:11,760
to remember a it's a preliminary report

960
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:14,560
and exactly the second point is this is

961
00:38:19,910 --> 00:38:17,760
an unclassified preliminary report uh

962
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:19,920
those on capitol hill within the senate

963
00:38:23,349 --> 00:38:21,440
intelligence committees are certainly

964
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,359
seeing more information

965
00:38:26,870 --> 00:38:25,599
um but i've always said since this

966
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:26,880
report's come out if you were

967
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:28,800
disappointed you had your expectations

968
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:31,359
set too high i did a live russian

969
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:33,520
television news back in january and they

970
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:36,000
asked me what should we expect and i

971
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:37,680
said in january and thank god i was

972
00:38:40,630 --> 00:38:39,359
proven right because any time you make a

973
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:40,640
prediction usually you're going to eat

974
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:42,160
crow later

975
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:44,240
i stated that i think we all need to

976
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:47,040
temper our expectations accordingly and

977
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:49,200
and that was the the best wisdom that i

978
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:51,280
could give people at the time but you

979
00:38:54,310 --> 00:38:52,400
know there were

980
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:54,320
the sensationalists the pseudo

981
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:55,920
researchers out there saying oh they're

982
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:58,320
going to wheel out the the crashed ufo

983
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:59,599
from roswell

984
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:01,119
it's going to be disclosure with a

985
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,400
capital d

986
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:04,880
and i just sat back and drank my coffee

987
00:39:08,790 --> 00:39:06,800
and just tried to just

988
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:08,800
temper my expectations accordingly and

989
00:39:12,829 --> 00:39:11,280
wait for the report and justifiably i

990
00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:12,839
think we were right in tempering those

991
00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:15,520
expectations oh the task force report

992
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:18,560
mentioned 144 ufo incidents collected

993
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,119
since 2004

994
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:22,960
one was identified

995
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:23,680
right

996
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:25,040
far

997
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:31,200
air force had is uh

998
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:34,320
explained reports i mean uh

999
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:36,320
the year i believe the air force's final

1000
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:38,240
statistics were somewhere around five

1001
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:41,760
percent unexplained yeah uh and then the

1002
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:44,000
condon committee which was supposed to

1003
00:39:48,470 --> 00:39:47,280
wrap up the air force investigations by

1004
00:39:51,829 --> 00:39:48,480
by

1005
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:51,839
using a scientific uh study to

1006
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:54,640
close down project blue book

1007
00:39:58,550 --> 00:39:57,280
they did a case analysis that uh

1008
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:58,560
revealed about

1009
00:40:02,910 --> 00:40:01,359
somewhere around 30 percent unknowns

1010
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:02,920
now we're up to

1011
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:05,680
99. something percent

1012
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:08,400
of un uh that are unexplained this is to

1013
00:40:13,990 --> 00:40:11,680
me a rather serious problem

1014
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,000
of course during the vietnam war uh

1015
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:16,079
there were two uh

1016
00:40:21,750 --> 00:40:19,440
uh at least two projects in vietnam they

1017
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:21,760
were kept from the condon committee and

1018
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,079
they were kept from project blue book

1019
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,480
one is called have fear

1020
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,240
and they used

1021
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,560
specialized sensors

1022
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:31,760
to uh

1023
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:34,960
detect ufos

1024
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,079
and they

1025
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:39,599
upped the standard for what was a ufo

1026
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,200
and almost all of their cases

1027
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,599
were reportedly

1028
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,160
uh unknown

1029
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,240
so this is amazing and this was hidden

1030
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:52,640
from the people that are supposedly

1031
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:55,760
studying ufos at the time the content

1032
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:57,599
committee

1033
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,760
interesting i i mentioned this on the

1034
00:41:02,870 --> 00:41:01,760
show probably 20 times and probably

1035
00:41:03,910 --> 00:41:02,880
boring the

1036
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,920
the uh

1037
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:05,520
the listener for every week but i did

1038
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,000
have an insurance agent a broker at my

1039
00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:10,720
house back in the 1990s before i was

1040
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,960
ever looking at this topic and he said

1041
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:14,800
he was in a special

1042
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:17,440
segment of the air force during vietnam

1043
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,720
that was studying ufos and i never got

1044
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:22,240
any details i've never been able to

1045
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,640
reach him again and i'd i'd like to i

1046
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:26,079
thought i found his name but i can't

1047
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:28,400
find any information on him

1048
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:29,440
uh

1049
00:41:39,750 --> 00:41:37,119
information

1050
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:39,760
nothing in particular but i came across

1051
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:42,240
a listing for uh

1052
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,400
combat air activity reports during

1053
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,880
vietnam and i always like to check that

1054
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,720
out to see if there's anything unusual

1055
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:49,599
there

1056
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:54,800
were numerous references to graft out uh

1057
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:57,520
reports uh some of which were called

1058
00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,440
ufos

1059
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:02,480
and wait a minute uh i

1060
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:04,319
we didn't hear much about vietnam over

1061
00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:07,200
the years a few times in the press but

1062
00:42:11,510 --> 00:42:09,040
uh here were

1063
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:11,520
combat reports talking about it so

1064
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,400
the more i looked the more we found i

1065
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:16,560
filled two binders full of

1066
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:19,599
document releases uh about vietnam not

1067
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:21,920
not just in the national archives but

1068
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:24,720
uh i checked a few academic sources who

1069
00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:27,920
that had stored old vietnam war

1070
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:29,680
government papers and

1071
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:32,079
and the reports are in there too

1072
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,599
you know what's interesting about

1073
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:35,359
vietnam just to kind of since we have

1074
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:36,960
barry greenwood here there's an

1075
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,040
interesting correlation between ufo

1076
00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:41,760
reports in vietnam and ufo reports

1077
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,000
during the 75 overflights of the icbm

1078
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,560
missile sites in both instances they

1079
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:48,160
were referring to them as mystery

1080
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:50,640
helicopters yeah a friend of mine was

1081
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:52,720
was a medic in vietnam and he actually

1082
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,200
talked to one of the uh one of the

1083
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:57,200
fighter pilots and he came back and

1084
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:59,359
described the the unusual lights that

1085
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:00,720
they were seeing and he said we were

1086
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:03,359
calling them mystery helicopters because

1087
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,599
they had the ability to hover unlike an

1088
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:07,280
aircraft but then they could rapidly

1089
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:10,160
accelerate and disappear and i believe

1090
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:12,079
i'm correct in my friends saying that

1091
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:13,680
the viet cong didn't have any

1092
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:15,920
helicopters yeah the the authorities

1093
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:18,000
found it hard to believe it was north

1094
00:43:22,230 --> 00:43:19,839
vietnamese activity because of the way

1095
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:22,240
the lights behaved yeah we had the same

1096
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,560
thing in 1975

1097
00:43:28,950 --> 00:43:26,880
near the military bases where

1098
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:28,960
helicopter-like

1099
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:32,000
objects were seen but they they couldn't

1100
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,880
be clearly identified as such

1101
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,319
and uh

1102
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,240
once at least at lauren air force base

1103
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:40,800
they wanted to shine a searchlight

1104
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,920
on the object that was hovering over the

1105
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:46,000
nuclear storage uh

1106
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:47,280
units and

1107
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,880
and they were afraid to blind the pilot

1108
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:52,800
whoever the pilot was that they might

1109
00:43:57,910 --> 00:43:55,599
crash into one of the uh the bomb igloos

1110
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:57,920
and destroy it well what happened was

1111
00:44:03,990 --> 00:43:58,800
they

1112
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:04,000
identify as clearly as possible what

1113
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:06,000
these were and eventually they shot off

1114
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:06,839
towards

1115
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:10,240
canada uh the aircraft were in pursuit

1116
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,480
they they couldn't catch up with these i

1117
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:14,480
mean it's hard to believe that that uh

1118
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:15,920
jet aircraft couldn't catch i think

1119
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:17,760
those were phantom jets too weren't they

1120
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:18,560
yes

1121
00:44:22,950 --> 00:44:21,200
yeah they were there there was a unit

1122
00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:22,960
out of plattsburgh that went after these

1123
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:25,200
uh things and they couldn't uh identify

1124
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:27,119
them and we never heard anything about

1125
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:29,680
the canadian end of it uh if they shut

1126
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:31,599
off into canada where was canada

1127
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:34,400
security with these objects

1128
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:37,520
it penetrated u.s military bases canada

1129
00:44:43,589 --> 00:44:39,839
should be worried but nothing is nothing

1130
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,470
amazing amazing um getting back to a

1131
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:48,640
comment you made david

1132
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:51,839
i had uh right after december

1133
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:52,800
um

1134
00:44:58,230 --> 00:44:56,480
16 2017 the new york times article came

1135
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:58,240
out the following week

1136
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:01,280
i had stan friedman on along with kathy

1137
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:04,880
martin and i basically you know titled

1138
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:08,160
the show stan friedman weighs in on the

1139
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:09,280
pentagon

1140
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,880
um you know release

1141
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,520
of videos etc and

1142
00:45:17,750 --> 00:45:15,680
the first thing he said in that

1143
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:17,760
interview and that's my most listened to

1144
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:20,400
youtube video out there uh but the first

1145
00:45:24,309 --> 00:45:21,680
thing he said

1146
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:24,319
was why now

1147
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:25,760
why now

1148
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:27,680
that's my number one question we need to

1149
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,680
be asking that question because any

1150
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:31,599
government they don't do things

1151
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:33,760
arbitrarily they do things for a reason

1152
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,839
they do things with intent

1153
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:37,920
and i think that really speaks to the

1154
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:40,720
larger overarching issue of what's going

1155
00:45:44,630 --> 00:45:42,560
on behind the scenes with regard to the

1156
00:45:46,870 --> 00:45:44,640
subject what do they know and why are

1157
00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:46,880
they suddenly having the sea change in

1158
00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:48,560
relation to how they're dealing publicly

1159
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:50,640
with the subject

1160
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:52,960
right um you know i've said i've said

1161
00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:55,599
oftentimes on the show many times just

1162
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,040
my opinion

1163
00:46:02,230 --> 00:45:59,760
that and you you kind of echoed that uh

1164
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,240
david and that's the government probably

1165
00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,560
doesn't know any more than we do but do

1166
00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:06,319
you think there's some argument to make

1167
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:07,760
that they may know

1168
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:10,240
some more or do you believe in general

1169
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,400
they don't know oh i wonder yeah

1170
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,319
potentially i think they know more than

1171
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:16,960
we do uh but that doesn't necessarily

1172
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,760
mean

1173
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,599
where where these things are coming from

1174
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,079
why they're here what's their intent i

1175
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:24,800
mean those those those big questions may

1176
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,040
still be elusive but i would like to

1177
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:29,280
believe with as barry alluded to

1178
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:31,520
satellite imagery that's capturing these

1179
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:33,520
things based on radcliff's testimony as

1180
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,359
well as the pentagon's own report i'm

1181
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:37,680
not this is not supposition on my part

1182
00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:39,920
this is what the pentagon report states

1183
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,520
multiple sensors have tracked these

1184
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,760
things the aegis radar system with the

1185
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,480
2004 nimitz incident satellite imagery

1186
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,760
infrared

1187
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,040
we have these things track on

1188
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:51,440
ground-based radar airborne radar

1189
00:46:57,109 --> 00:46:54,160
ground-based visual airborne visual

1190
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:57,119
i would i would hope that based on the

1191
00:47:01,910 --> 00:46:59,040
various sensing apparatus that they have

1192
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:01,920
as well as uh undersea sonar buoys that

1193
00:47:06,230 --> 00:47:04,480
are detecting these usos and i know that

1194
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,240
through a friend that has a friend in

1195
00:47:11,750 --> 00:47:08,720
the navy that that told me this

1196
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:11,760
um that they have a lot of information

1197
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:13,520
and they probably have a little bit more

1198
00:47:18,710 --> 00:47:15,440
specificity as far as what's going on

1199
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:18,720
than we do but i do feel and again

1200
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,520
speculation those larger overarching

1201
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:23,359
questions of who are these things where

1202
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:25,520
are they from why are they here

1203
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:26,960
they're no closer to those answers than

1204
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,200
we are yeah i i think they have more

1205
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,520
detail but they don't have conclusions

1206
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:33,760
and all that detail we haven't seen yet

1207
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,880
right so uh coral lorenzen

1208
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:38,480
the head of the

1209
00:47:42,870 --> 00:47:41,040
era phenomenal resource research

1210
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,880
organization

1211
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,160
uh

1212
00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:46,319
as a feminist

1213
00:47:52,150 --> 00:47:48,160
perspective

1214
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:52,160
she said um

1215
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:54,000
daddy won't tell

1216
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:57,040
but daddy doesn't know

1217
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:57,920
and

1218
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,040
daddy

1219
00:48:03,349 --> 00:48:01,280
has more and better

1220
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:03,359
information than we do but they don't

1221
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,200
know

1222
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:07,599
so uh

1223
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:09,839
and of course she was you know she was

1224
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:12,480
very much in the ufos she's the head of

1225
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:19,030
many many ufo reports and

1226
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:23,119
dr james mcdonald the physicist at the

1227
00:48:31,030 --> 00:48:26,160
university of arizona

1228
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:33,589
and then a cover-up of the fall

1229
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:35,440
follow-up

1230
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,510
there's a book coming out called the

1231
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:41,280
unidentified

1232
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:42,800
and that's

1233
00:48:51,670 --> 00:48:48,790
conclusion

1234
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:51,680
that uh this was not this was an

1235
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:54,400
intelligence failure almost from the

1236
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:56,319
beginning

1237
00:49:02,390 --> 00:48:59,680
um the air force wanted to claim

1238
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,400
possession of this and if the cia

1239
00:49:09,910 --> 00:49:03,839
came in

1240
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:13,510
in an interview with wendell smith

1241
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:16,640
who was a air force intelligence

1242
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:18,400
uh he he was

1243
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:21,040
it was decades afterwards and he was

1244
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:23,760
still angry about the cia

1245
00:49:29,349 --> 00:49:27,440
sticking their nose into ufos

1246
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:29,359
he said what did they have their big

1247
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:31,200
business on this

1248
00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,200
well

1249
00:49:38,069 --> 00:49:35,520
the intelligence community works best

1250
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:38,079
when they all cooperate together

1251
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,280
and this is an intelligence failure here

1252
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:43,440
and martin if i can add to what jan just

1253
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:45,680
said uh you know uh

1254
00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:48,319
a colleague chris mellon uh i know your

1255
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:50,000
audience is familiar with chris he's

1256
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:51,839
been very prominent since all of this

1257
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:53,280
has come forward

1258
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:55,040
chris mellon has made an interesting

1259
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:56,720
statement publicly and in private to

1260
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:59,040
myself with regard to the fact that and

1261
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:00,240
i think it's rather chilling when you

1262
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,720
think about it that he was frustrated

1263
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:04,800
that within the intelligence networks

1264
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,240
there was no centralization of

1265
00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:08,480
information you had disparate groups

1266
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:10,160
within the intelligence community that

1267
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:13,040
were sitting on ufo or uap data but

1268
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:15,440
nobody was centralizing it and it was an

1269
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,040
interesting comparison he made he said

1270
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:19,440
it was almost akin to what i saw prior

1271
00:50:22,710 --> 00:50:20,880
to 9 11.

1272
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,720
all these various groups were collecting

1273
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:24,720
chatter but they weren't making sense

1274
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:26,319
out of it because no one was sharing and

1275
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,319
centralizing that information and to

1276
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,960
jan's point i i i think that we're

1277
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:32,240
seeing now

1278
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:34,000
due to successive public statements and

1279
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:36,240
documents in light of the pentagon

1280
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:38,800
report that there are

1281
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:40,400
efforts to now centralize this

1282
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,760
information and i think we as the

1283
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:45,680
american public should feel much safer

1284
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:47,920
in that because at the end of the day

1285
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:51,040
they're viewing this ufo uat subject

1286
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,800
through the lens of national security

1287
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,960
and the the earlier question martin by

1288
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,880
one of your audience members you know

1289
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:58,400
and i understand the question when they

1290
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:59,760
say you know why are they doing this as

1291
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,960
a threat

1292
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,359
we have to understand the audience these

1293
00:51:08,549 --> 00:51:05,760
people their job is tasked with the

1294
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:08,559
defense of this country so of course

1295
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:10,160
they're going to view ufos through the

1296
00:51:14,710 --> 00:51:12,480
lens of national security and again as i

1297
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:14,720
mentioned earlier view it as a potential

1298
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,599
threat until they know better

1299
00:51:23,270 --> 00:51:19,680
i i need to say something i misspoke i

1300
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:23,280
said wendell steve who was a uh who was

1301
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:25,280
in the air force yeah

1302
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:26,640
but uh

1303
00:51:29,990 --> 00:51:28,800
the the man that that i was talking

1304
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:30,000
about was

1305
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,190
yeah it wasn't it wasn't uh the

1306
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:38,880
famous uh

1307
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:40,960
uh guy with uh

1308
00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:43,520
uh ufo photographs

1309
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:45,440
oh yes he had that big huge collection

1310
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:48,240
out west no it wasn't him it was it was

1311
00:51:52,549 --> 00:51:49,760
somebody that was in

1312
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:52,559
the uh the top of us

1313
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:54,640
air force intelligence

1314
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:56,319
well we have to take a break a quick

1315
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:58,240
break in just like three minutes but

1316
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:01,280
speaking of of that um

1317
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:04,880
i know that open minds owns that

1318
00:52:08,950 --> 00:52:08,160
collection of photographs from stevens

1319
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:08,960
and

1320
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,800
i'm just wondering david have you ever

1321
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:12,640
thought about reaching out to see if

1322
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:15,520
they would want them in your archives i

1323
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:17,040
haven't reached out mainly because i've

1324
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,880
had enough to contend with as it is

1325
00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:19,920
currently

1326
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:22,640
to be completely honest martin um but i

1327
00:52:25,829 --> 00:52:24,800
do believe and barry and jan might be

1328
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:25,839
able to correct me i think some of that

1329
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:27,680
went to the archives for ufo research

1330
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:29,839
didn't it over in sweden uh

1331
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:31,680
it seems like a little bit of everything

1332
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:33,359
goes to the archives for you yeah i

1333
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:35,040
think some of that has been dispersed

1334
00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:37,920
over time but to your point open minds

1335
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:39,760
with the death of wendell stevens did

1336
00:52:43,990 --> 00:52:41,440
initially acquire it but i think some of

1337
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:44,000
that has been parsed out to various

1338
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:46,240
groups and you know it's great the work

1339
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:47,680
we're doing here but it's also great

1340
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:50,480
with the work of afu in sweden and all

1341
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,400
of these other groups across the globe

1342
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,319
because there shouldn't be one location

1343
00:52:59,109 --> 00:52:56,640
for all ufo history we should have

1344
00:53:01,510 --> 00:52:59,119
respective archives ideally in every

1345
00:53:03,510 --> 00:53:01,520
country uh because at the day it's part

1346
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:03,520
of that country's history yeah can you

1347
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:06,000
imagine collecting ufo history in one

1348
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:08,720
building and suddenly a spark takes

1349
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:10,559
effect and the whole thing goes up in

1350
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:11,599
smoke

1351
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:13,119
yeah that would be like that ancient

1352
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:15,200
library that was burned right uh

1353
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:16,800
alexandria

1354
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,079
exactly that's what i was thinking of

1355
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:20,640
yes all right so i think we're gonna go

1356
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:22,880
into uh we do have another question in

1357
00:53:29,190 --> 00:53:25,920
chat but um this has been uh very

1358
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:29,200
interesting so far and this is the first

1359
00:53:32,470 --> 00:53:30,640
part of the show we're going to be

1360
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:32,480
heading into a quick break

1361
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,559
and when this is over at kgra radio um

1362
00:53:44,570 --> 00:53:39,040
hang in there we'll be right back

1363
00:53:44,580 --> 00:54:09,510
[Music]

1364
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:12,069
all right we are back and well i came

1365
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:13,440
back from

1366
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:15,440
germany

1367
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:18,160
okay we are back and my guests tonight

1368
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:19,280
are jan

1369
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:22,400
aldrich david marlar and barry greenwood

1370
00:54:26,950 --> 00:54:24,480
we're all

1371
00:54:29,670 --> 00:54:26,960
having a very good chat about

1372
00:54:31,589 --> 00:54:29,680
basically historical ufos and all that

1373
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:31,599
we're going to get into other subjects

1374
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:33,920
as we go along and if you're

1375
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:35,520
listening live

1376
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,119
and in chat um please put your questions

1377
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:42,079
in caps and i'll try to get to them

1378
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:47,190
there you are and i just have to fix

1379
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:48,640
things here we go

1380
00:54:54,390 --> 00:54:51,119
welcome back

1381
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:54,400
um all right and your audio is on right

1382
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:57,760
yes okay good good so uh we had a

1383
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:00,480
question i wanted to pull up for you and

1384
00:55:04,309 --> 00:55:02,640
that is this one came in what is the

1385
00:55:07,270 --> 00:55:04,319
best evidence

1386
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,280
you have collected um and i know your

1387
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:09,920
collection is massive can you actually

1388
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:11,520
could you actually point the finger at

1389
00:55:14,789 --> 00:55:12,799
one

1390
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:14,799
and says like that has got to be the

1391
00:55:18,789 --> 00:55:17,040
best ufo evidence well i don't know if

1392
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:18,799
we really have evidence here as such

1393
00:55:24,069 --> 00:55:21,920
rather reports of cases uh

1394
00:55:27,030 --> 00:55:24,079
very well i have a copy of joe

1395
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,040
simonson's pancake from 1961. i think

1396
00:55:30,950 --> 00:55:29,200
that's pretty cool

1397
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:30,960
that's definitely evidence you have to

1398
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:33,280
tell the story on that one real quick

1399
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,480
oh well

1400
00:55:38,510 --> 00:55:36,160
basically

1401
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:38,520
joe simonton was in contact with

1402
00:55:42,630 --> 00:55:40,880
extraterrestrials that landed in his uh

1403
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:42,640
yard and oh yes

1404
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:45,440
that's an old very old case uh

1405
00:55:52,470 --> 00:55:48,640
very argued over but you know it's it's

1406
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:52,480
it involved him uh giving some water to

1407
00:55:56,789 --> 00:55:55,040
these creatures in exchange for

1408
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:56,799
what were

1409
00:56:02,230 --> 00:55:59,200
what seemed to be pancakes

1410
00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:02,240
and he uh he he weighed those around

1411
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:04,160
people and showed them that he had

1412
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:05,440
pieces of

1413
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:08,160
extraterrestrial food apparently and

1414
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:09,680
and

1415
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:12,960
the organization nycap

1416
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:15,680
as they had to do with ufo incidents

1417
00:56:19,910 --> 00:56:17,760
looked into it and you know i'm sure

1418
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,920
they were skeptical about it but

1419
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:21,920
uh they had a

1420
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:23,920
local investigator up there obtain a

1421
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:26,000
piece of the pancake

1422
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,640
uh for analysis and they had determined

1423
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:30,559
that it

1424
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:32,720
seemed to be terrestrial nothing special

1425
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:34,960
about it

1426
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:38,400
and the piece ended up in their files

1427
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:41,280
and many years went by

1428
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:43,599
uh eventually

1429
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:46,400
an investigator ted bloacher who had a

1430
00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:50,319
project to study humanity reports

1431
00:56:54,630 --> 00:56:52,559
gave his files up he was moving on to

1432
00:56:56,789 --> 00:56:54,640
other things and and he asked me if i

1433
00:56:57,670 --> 00:56:56,799
would take his humcat files as he called

1434
00:57:02,549 --> 00:56:57,680
them

1435
00:57:05,190 --> 00:57:02,559
all uh

1436
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:05,200
and i came across this one file on on

1437
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:07,359
eagle river wisconsin which was that

1438
00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:08,640
story and

1439
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,319
i was shocked when i opened it up i

1440
00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:12,559
found an envelope and there's

1441
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:14,960
wax paper inside

1442
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:17,520
and wax paper wrapped up a piece of this

1443
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:20,079
pancake that nightcap had talked about

1444
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:23,440
and became a sort of a car celeb for

1445
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:26,720
a lot of ufo believers but um it wasn't

1446
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:28,640
it wasn't evidence of extraterrestrials

1447
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:30,160
at all but it's just a really cool

1448
00:57:35,109 --> 00:57:32,720
artifact i've been tempted to taste it

1449
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:35,119
with a little maple for it but yeah

1450
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:37,040
probably be costing myself a lot of

1451
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:39,200
money yeah that's right put it in the

1452
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:41,119
microwave first and put a little batter

1453
00:57:46,069 --> 00:57:42,960
on it that's pretty hard

1454
00:57:48,230 --> 00:57:46,079
well let's go some real evidence please

1455
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,240
okay

1456
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:50,400
brett sparks and i've been looking for

1457
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:53,440
broadcasting ufos

1458
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:54,799
and

1459
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:56,799
one of the first cases was all the way

1460
00:58:01,270 --> 00:57:58,880
back in 51

1461
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:01,280
larson air force base

1462
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:03,599
and they have uh

1463
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:06,240
military aircraft have

1464
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:09,200
coded recognition signals

1465
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:11,040
so you send out a res

1466
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:14,000
recognition signal and then the

1467
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:15,359
uh

1468
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:20,079
aircraft sends you back

1469
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:22,880
using your uh computer

1470
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:24,960
thing you it'll send you back a class

1471
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:26,160
fight

1472
00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:27,280
uh

1473
00:58:33,750 --> 00:58:30,960
saying this is who i am

1474
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:33,760
and so they did that with uh

1475
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:36,799
with this case in larson air force base

1476
00:58:41,589 --> 00:58:39,599
that rupell talks about in his book but

1477
00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:41,599
he doesn't mention

1478
00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:43,599
that they send it out send out the coded

1479
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:45,119
signal and

1480
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:48,799
the ufo replied with a coded signal

1481
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:51,760
so how does it have that code well one

1482
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:54,720
might say oh it's just a uh

1483
00:58:56,950 --> 00:58:56,240
a uh

1484
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,960
a

1485
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:57,920
secret

1486
00:59:02,069 --> 00:59:00,319
mission going on that the people at

1487
00:59:04,870 --> 00:59:02,079
larsen didn't know

1488
00:59:05,750 --> 00:59:04,880
it apparently at one time this case was

1489
00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:05,760
uh

1490
00:59:11,190 --> 00:59:08,880
top secret and had been downgraded and

1491
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,200
given to blue book

1492
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:13,680
um there's a number of other cases like

1493
00:59:17,109 --> 00:59:15,920
that in the file where they're

1494
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:17,119
receiving

1495
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:20,799
transmissions of something

1496
00:59:24,870 --> 00:59:22,559
and they don't include enough

1497
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:24,880
information in the report for you to do

1498
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:25,839
something

1499
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:26,799
but

1500
00:59:30,390 --> 00:59:29,119
it would seem to me that obviously that

1501
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:30,400
would be something you're very

1502
00:59:33,589 --> 00:59:31,839
interested

1503
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:33,599
and martin related to the question you

1504
00:59:37,270 --> 00:59:35,359
know regarding evidence and i wrote

1505
00:59:39,829 --> 00:59:37,280
about this in my book it really depends

1506
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:39,839
on what you define as evidence if if

1507
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:42,720
we're talking physical evidence of a ufo

1508
00:59:46,309 --> 00:59:44,240
or an extraterrestrial we don't have

1509
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:46,319
that and i would challenge anyone who

1510
00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:48,160
says they have that to bring that forth

1511
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:50,160
to the scientific community to analyze

1512
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:52,480
but really what we do as i mentioned

1513
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,000
earlier is we have

1514
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:56,079
decades worth of military civilian

1515
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:58,079
reports and the ones that are most

1516
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:00,880
compelling to get to the question is

1517
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:03,599
the cases are the cases that involve

1518
01:00:08,390 --> 01:00:06,240
radar in addition to visual sightings

1519
01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:08,400
where you have objective measures that

1520
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:11,040
are supporting the subjective human

1521
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:12,240
perception

1522
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:14,720
and there's many compelling cases where

1523
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:16,640
many of these objects have been detected

1524
01:00:21,030 --> 01:00:19,200
on multiple radar systems in addition to

1525
01:00:22,150 --> 01:00:21,040
being seen by multiple trained military

1526
01:00:24,069 --> 01:00:22,160
observers

1527
01:00:26,829 --> 01:00:24,079
the best evidence we have is the

1528
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:26,839
evidence of it being an unexplained

1529
01:00:32,789 --> 01:00:29,839
phenomenon not not much beyond that it's

1530
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,799
just a weird phenomenon that is

1531
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:34,400
tough to define

1532
01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:36,640
there's plenty of evidence of that in

1533
01:00:40,829 --> 01:00:38,480
terms of the reports but if you're

1534
01:00:42,710 --> 01:00:40,839
talking about artifacts

1535
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:42,720
uh

1536
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,640
you can't point at any one thing and say

1537
01:00:49,030 --> 01:00:46,720
it's it's from space or

1538
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:49,040
other dimensions or whatever it's it's

1539
01:00:54,390 --> 01:00:51,040
nothing nothing in the civilian sector

1540
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,400
so we we have uh

1541
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:56,400
uh i'm interested in close encounter

1542
01:01:02,630 --> 01:00:58,319
cases where there's

1543
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:02,640
some kind of effect like stalling cars

1544
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:04,559
turning out the lights

1545
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:06,640
um

1546
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:08,720
things like that

1547
01:01:13,270 --> 01:01:11,359
now there's there's almost 2 000 of

1548
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:13,280
these cases

1549
01:01:17,430 --> 01:01:15,200
that we know of

1550
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:17,440
and in almost

1551
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,400
just one or two cases has the car broad

1552
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:22,559
been brought in to be examined

1553
01:01:27,430 --> 01:01:25,200
afterwards i mean they they say oh we

1554
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:27,440
took it to a mechanic and he said i

1555
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:30,079
can't figure out why it would do that

1556
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:32,400
but it hasn't actually been well

1557
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:35,040
investigated content committee

1558
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:37,920
uh roy craig went out and he had a

1559
01:01:43,349 --> 01:01:40,480
compass and he ran the compass over the

1560
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:43,359
hood of the car that is not a scientific

1561
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:45,200
investigation

1562
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:46,480
the uh

1563
01:01:49,990 --> 01:01:47,280
uh

1564
01:01:53,829 --> 01:01:50,000
the guys in britain brought a car in and

1565
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:53,839
they tore it apart to look at what was

1566
01:01:59,190 --> 01:01:56,000
different about it afterwards

1567
01:02:03,029 --> 01:01:59,200
in a lot of cases it burns out the fuses

1568
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:03,039
um wow so it's

1569
01:02:07,829 --> 01:02:05,440
this is something that that somebody

1570
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:07,839
with some scientific

1571
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:10,799
acumen could actually examine

1572
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:13,359
but it is seldom have

1573
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:15,920
has been that and and to jan's point

1574
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:17,119
getting back to what i alluded to

1575
01:02:20,390 --> 01:02:18,960
earlier martin with regard to looking at

1576
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:20,400
patterns in the data

1577
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,440
you can take the uh ground vehicle

1578
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:25,359
interference cases and then look at

1579
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:26,799
characteristics

1580
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:29,760
that also match other cases one that i

1581
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:32,880
think of is 1973 mansfield ohio the

1582
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:35,680
colonel coin case where this military

1583
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:38,240
helicopter was caught in this light that

1584
01:02:42,150 --> 01:02:40,079
actually pulled it up despite the fact

1585
01:02:43,349 --> 01:02:42,160
that they were in a downward trajectory

1586
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:43,359
according to the controls in the

1587
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:44,559
helicopter

1588
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,960
but in the days weeks and months

1589
01:02:51,190 --> 01:02:48,559
following that

1590
01:02:54,150 --> 01:02:51,200
that helicopter became the hangar queen

1591
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,160
they had all kinds of electronic

1592
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:56,640
failures with that helicopter and the

1593
01:02:59,990 --> 01:02:58,160
only thing that they can tie it to was a

1594
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:00,000
direct result of it being in the beam of

1595
01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:02,640
this ufo so to jan's point it's not just

1596
01:03:06,150 --> 01:03:04,400
ground vehicles but even airborne

1597
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:06,160
vehicles that have sustained

1598
01:03:11,109 --> 01:03:08,640
some type of damage as a result of being

1599
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:11,119
in close proximity these ufos

1600
01:03:14,390 --> 01:03:13,200
and what do you think you know you keep

1601
01:03:17,670 --> 01:03:14,400
hearing about

1602
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:17,680
the meta materials the possible crash

1603
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:20,720
um artifacts that migs may or may not

1604
01:03:25,510 --> 01:03:23,520
exist i don't know i personally

1605
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,520
it's in the gray basket for me whether

1606
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:27,680
these things even though you know some

1607
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:28,640
pretty

1608
01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:30,960
high up there people including

1609
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:34,160
louis uh lou elizondo kind of

1610
01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:37,119
hints to the fact that these things are

1611
01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:38,000
uh

1612
01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,400
are known to exist

1613
01:03:43,990 --> 01:03:42,720
and what are any comments on that from

1614
01:03:46,150 --> 01:03:44,000
any one of you and i i'm going to be

1615
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:46,160
pulling up questions on chat uh right

1616
01:03:49,750 --> 01:03:47,520
after that

1617
01:03:51,589 --> 01:03:49,760
and as i said i don't know of any

1618
01:03:53,109 --> 01:03:51,599
artifacts that have proven to be

1619
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:53,119
anything

1620
01:03:57,510 --> 01:03:54,319
that

1621
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:57,520
would substantiate ufos as something

1622
01:04:03,349 --> 01:04:00,720
really exotic uh meta materials well

1623
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:03,359
hints are okay but we're not seeing any

1624
01:04:06,549 --> 01:04:04,640
information

1625
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:06,559
and that none of it's really come out

1626
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:09,280
except for generalities uh in the last

1627
01:04:13,670 --> 01:04:12,240
few years since it first surfaced yeah

1628
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,680
i'm like you martin i'm pretty much an

1629
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:15,599
agnostic when it comes to that not

1630
01:04:18,870 --> 01:04:17,359
denying that they don't exist and i hope

1631
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:18,880
they do exist because i think we all

1632
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:21,119
want physical evidence of something

1633
01:04:24,789 --> 01:04:23,200
that is suggested that this is someone

1634
01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:24,799
else's technology

1635
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,440
um but if there is physical evidence i

1636
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:29,440
would compel you know whoever has that

1637
01:04:33,430 --> 01:04:31,599
material to bring it forth to the

1638
01:04:35,270 --> 01:04:33,440
general scientific community so it can

1639
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:35,280
be researched and studied at multiple

1640
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:36,960
independent laboratories because that's

1641
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:39,520
what we do right in science we get

1642
01:04:44,230 --> 01:04:41,680
multiple groups to analyze the data and

1643
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:44,240
then we compare the results and so

1644
01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:46,160
um it's interesting that they're talking

1645
01:04:49,750 --> 01:04:47,920
about it i just wish that they would

1646
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:49,760
afford the general scientific community

1647
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:53,280
the access to those materials so um yeah

1648
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:55,599
bigelow had uh

1649
01:04:59,109 --> 01:04:58,160
certain things that were sent to him or

1650
01:05:02,470 --> 01:04:59,119
that

1651
01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:02,480
his people collected during the uh

1652
01:05:06,789 --> 01:05:05,280
uh during his uh sub contract

1653
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:06,799
investigation

1654
01:05:11,589 --> 01:05:09,359
um the university

1655
01:05:14,309 --> 01:05:11,599
of uh

1656
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:14,319
las vegas unlv

1657
01:05:18,470 --> 01:05:16,079
examined some of those things and they

1658
01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:18,480
were all mostly mundane

1659
01:05:23,829 --> 01:05:22,960
including a jar of muddy water

1660
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:23,839
so

1661
01:05:27,589 --> 01:05:25,440
um

1662
01:05:29,910 --> 01:05:27,599
now they did it for free they wanted

1663
01:05:31,589 --> 01:05:29,920
bigelow to give him give them more

1664
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:31,599
business

1665
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:34,960
but nothing that they did in the initial

1666
01:05:42,069 --> 01:05:38,240
examination of what he had

1667
01:05:45,029 --> 01:05:42,079
submitted was was anything

1668
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:45,039
uh that was exotic

1669
01:05:49,029 --> 01:05:46,960
um

1670
01:05:51,589 --> 01:05:49,039
and that that

1671
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:51,599
story died really quickly because there

1672
01:05:54,549 --> 01:05:52,880
was no

1673
01:05:57,510 --> 01:05:54,559
oomph behind it

1674
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:57,520
sure i remember the the story about arts

1675
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:00,480
parts i think a linda moulton had them

1676
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:03,200
as well and one of them ended up being a

1677
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:05,520
part to a radiate a car radiator you

1678
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,760
know i mean the metal i don't know if uh

1679
01:06:10,870 --> 01:06:09,440
if any of you followed any of that but

1680
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,880
that was right yeah that was pretty

1681
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:12,880
interesting so here's uh here's a

1682
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:15,520
question directly for you david uh why

1683
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:18,720
belgium for the late 80s 90s triangle

1684
01:06:22,309 --> 01:06:20,000
flap

1685
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:22,319
well that's a good question i i really

1686
01:06:25,589 --> 01:06:23,920
obviously don't know and i don't think

1687
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:25,599
the belgian air force knows after all

1688
01:06:30,789 --> 01:06:28,079
these decades but what's interesting is

1689
01:06:33,510 --> 01:06:30,799
you look at the 80s in the 90s actually

1690
01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:33,520
it was 89 to 91 really respectively that

1691
01:06:36,789 --> 01:06:35,280
that wave of sightings that they're

1692
01:06:37,990 --> 01:06:36,799
referencing

1693
01:06:40,630 --> 01:06:38,000
leading up to that and i've had

1694
01:06:41,829 --> 01:06:40,640
discussions with researchers in wales

1695
01:06:45,990 --> 01:06:41,839
and england

1696
01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:46,000
about this is starting around 1983

1697
01:06:50,549 --> 01:06:48,000
around 1986

1698
01:06:52,630 --> 01:06:50,559
in wales you were having sightings uh in

1699
01:06:54,309 --> 01:06:52,640
january of 83 specifically i'm working

1700
01:06:56,069 --> 01:06:54,319
with a group right now in wales that's

1701
01:06:58,549 --> 01:06:56,079
doing a documentary on this

1702
01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:58,559
there was a wave of triangular ufo

1703
01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:01,599
sightings over whales and when you look

1704
01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:02,960
and again this is where i talk about the

1705
01:07:06,950 --> 01:07:04,640
big picture martin looking at patterns

1706
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:06,960
in the data you look at that and it's

1707
01:07:11,750 --> 01:07:08,880
almost as if the activity tended to

1708
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:11,760
shift to the southeast down towards the

1709
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:14,160
english channel you started getting all

1710
01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:17,200
of these reports in southern england

1711
01:07:22,789 --> 01:07:20,160
and then within literally weeks of the

1712
01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:22,799
belgian wave you now suddenly had that

1713
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:25,680
activity shift to belgium apparently

1714
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:27,520
from england despite that there were

1715
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:29,760
still sightings going on in england

1716
01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:31,200
but when you look at the distance across

1717
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:33,039
the english channel by air that's

1718
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,920
nothing

1719
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:35,760
and so

1720
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:37,760
we see these patterns of activity that

1721
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:39,520
seem to shift and so

1722
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,640
again belgium wasn't isolated although

1723
01:07:47,109 --> 01:07:45,119
i would argue it wasn't the belgian ufo

1724
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:47,119
sightings that were unique rather the

1725
01:07:51,910 --> 01:07:48,880
way that the media and the belgian

1726
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:51,920
military uh approached it and discussed

1727
01:07:55,029 --> 01:07:53,359
it publicly

1728
01:07:58,150 --> 01:07:55,039
much different than the united states

1729
01:08:00,549 --> 01:07:58,160
air force uh take on ufo subject and

1730
01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:00,559
what about the controversial photo that

1731
01:08:04,950 --> 01:08:03,599
looked so good i know i know it's uh has

1732
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:04,960
not been able to been

1733
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:06,640
replicated as well it's kind of a

1734
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:09,200
mystery yeah well i i always say this is

1735
01:08:13,109 --> 01:08:10,880
not my opinion this is the opinion of

1736
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:13,119
the lead investigator patrick ferran a

1737
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:15,520
friend of mine and the lead investigator

1738
01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:18,000
with sobeps now kobeps but it was called

1739
01:08:21,910 --> 01:08:20,319
sobeps at that time and they did the

1740
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:21,920
lead investigations he knows the

1741
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:25,120
photographer and in their opinion in

1742
01:08:30,309 --> 01:08:27,920
patrick's opinion and their experts it

1743
01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:30,319
was in fact a hoaxed photo

1744
01:08:33,910 --> 01:08:31,679
and it's interesting though because i

1745
01:08:36,630 --> 01:08:33,920
always love to use this as an example of

1746
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:36,640
how skeptics will take one thing and

1747
01:08:41,749 --> 01:08:39,040
generalize it to a ridiculous degree

1748
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:41,759
they'll say you see the photo the famous

1749
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:43,920
photo was fake therefore there's no

1750
01:08:48,470 --> 01:08:46,799
validity to any of the sightings

1751
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:48,480
which is ridiculous that's like saying i

1752
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:50,640
have a counterfeit 20 bill therefore all

1753
01:08:55,749 --> 01:08:52,799
the 20 bills that you're holding in your

1754
01:08:57,590 --> 01:08:55,759
wallets and purses are counterfeit

1755
01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:57,600
exactly yeah that is kind of that is

1756
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:59,440
kind of frustrating

1757
01:09:02,470 --> 01:09:00,880
well the old saying that throwing the

1758
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:02,480
baby out with the bath water seems to

1759
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:03,440
happen

1760
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:05,359
quite a bit when it comes to these i'm

1761
01:09:07,669 --> 01:09:06,880
going to pull up that image as soon as i

1762
01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:07,679
can

1763
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:10,560
um get that up uh because it really is a

1764
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:12,239
a fascinating i mean you look at the

1765
01:09:15,669 --> 01:09:14,719
picture you really think it has to be

1766
01:09:17,990 --> 01:09:15,679
something

1767
01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:18,000
yeah it ends up it's not

1768
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:20,799
um but also i remember speaking to

1769
01:09:26,470 --> 01:09:24,400
leslie kane about this and she said that

1770
01:09:28,870 --> 01:09:26,480
um there was

1771
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:28,880
uh i believe

1772
01:09:33,269 --> 01:09:31,440
the person that took the photo

1773
01:09:35,910 --> 01:09:33,279
appeared to have gotten

1774
01:09:37,189 --> 01:09:35,920
um a payoff of some kind which made it

1775
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,199
even more

1776
01:09:41,189 --> 01:09:39,600
unusual do you know anything

1777
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:41,199
i don't know about a payoff but anytime

1778
01:09:44,870 --> 01:09:42,799
you enter money into the equation on

1779
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:44,880
these situations it it certainly calls

1780
01:09:49,349 --> 01:09:47,679
into question what's the motivation

1781
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:49,359
yeah exactly

1782
01:09:52,390 --> 01:09:50,960
uh well like everything i'm trying to

1783
01:09:54,950 --> 01:09:52,400
pull up on that photo is not coming

1784
01:09:57,669 --> 01:09:54,960
through but it really is uh uh

1785
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:57,679
it's it's quite a convincing photo when

1786
01:10:03,350 --> 01:10:00,800
you first look at it for sure

1787
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:03,360
and let's see i have another question

1788
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:05,920
that uh mary grace always has some great

1789
01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:08,159
questions and i'm going to pull that up

1790
01:10:13,590 --> 01:10:10,719
here as soon as i get to it here

1791
01:10:16,229 --> 01:10:13,600
and that is are there any documents from

1792
01:10:19,990 --> 01:10:16,239
any governments in the world that claim

1793
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:22,229
uh are you aware of any not official

1794
01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:24,640
documents that i know of there are fakes

1795
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:26,320
running around that look like government

1796
01:10:31,430 --> 01:10:30,080
documents that surely say that yeah but

1797
01:10:34,310 --> 01:10:31,440
i've always

1798
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:34,320
asked with government paperwork and all

1799
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:37,120
one thing i insisted on if is if they

1800
01:10:41,350 --> 01:10:39,440
were released

1801
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:41,360
by any government they should be

1802
01:10:46,950 --> 01:10:44,400
accompanied by a paper trail

1803
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:46,960
provenance cover letters anything like

1804
01:10:54,229 --> 01:10:47,920
that

1805
01:10:56,149 --> 01:10:54,239
right i i can't trust them right i don't

1806
01:10:58,550 --> 01:10:56,159
know where they're coming from they came

1807
01:11:01,590 --> 01:10:58,560
from anonymous sources sometimes or they

1808
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:01,600
went through third fourth fifth parties

1809
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:03,920
and you can't really uh determine the

1810
01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:05,520
origin of these things right and that

1811
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,400
automatically makes documents suspicious

1812
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:10,800
well i'm glad you brought that up

1813
01:11:14,709 --> 01:11:12,880
because i would like to talk about what

1814
01:11:16,470 --> 01:11:14,719
was floating around i don't know maybe

1815
01:11:18,790 --> 01:11:16,480
two years ago and there was so much

1816
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:18,800
hubbub about it and i didn't think it

1817
01:11:23,189 --> 01:11:20,719
had any meat to it at all when i looked

1818
01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:23,199
into it i could be wrong so i try to be

1819
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:25,440
open-minded but the wilson document are

1820
01:11:31,830 --> 01:11:29,040
you from anyone familiar with that yes

1821
01:11:35,590 --> 01:11:31,840
and and your opinion

1822
01:11:37,189 --> 01:11:35,600
well wilson said that he wasn't there

1823
01:11:39,189 --> 01:11:37,199
he denied it

1824
01:11:41,910 --> 01:11:39,199
so

1825
01:11:44,310 --> 01:11:41,920
it's it's you know

1826
01:11:46,390 --> 01:11:44,320
one piece of evidence after another you

1827
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:46,400
know he said she said

1828
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:47,760
um

1829
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:50,640
now the government is known to

1830
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:53,520
lie about ufos everywhere

1831
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:56,880
so but i i don't trust

1832
01:12:02,310 --> 01:11:59,679
the uh supposed

1833
01:12:04,470 --> 01:12:02,320
outcome of that what you know

1834
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:04,480
what supposedly was discussed and things

1835
01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:06,880
like that yeah i i would ask where did

1836
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:09,679
it come from yeah

1837
01:12:11,830 --> 01:12:10,480
right

1838
01:12:14,709 --> 01:12:11,840
and

1839
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:14,719
uh well that act supposedly that

1840
01:12:21,030 --> 01:12:17,760
originated in a file

1841
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:21,040
that belonged to um the astronaut who am

1842
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:23,679
i thinking of uh

1843
01:12:27,189 --> 01:12:25,440
exactly yes

1844
01:12:30,470 --> 01:12:27,199
and i don't know if that's uh and then

1845
01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:30,480
supposedly it was taken to australia

1846
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:32,400
and uh

1847
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:36,560
and kind of got around from there and

1848
01:12:40,950 --> 01:12:38,480
you know if i'm wrong i'm wrong but i

1849
01:12:41,910 --> 01:12:40,960
mean that's that's that's what i yeah

1850
01:12:48,310 --> 01:12:41,920
yeah

1851
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,350
uh

1852
01:12:57,189 --> 01:12:54,950
i i did a conference with edgar mitchell

1853
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:57,199
and uh

1854
01:13:00,470 --> 01:12:58,000
uh

1855
01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:00,480
furmage

1856
01:13:09,590 --> 01:13:08,070
edgar richelle is a is an american hero

1857
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:09,600
and he's uh

1858
01:13:14,709 --> 01:13:11,520
he's definitely uh

1859
01:13:18,790 --> 01:13:17,030
knows what he's talking about as far as

1860
01:13:20,790 --> 01:13:18,800
nasa goes but

1861
01:13:22,709 --> 01:13:20,800
i have a lot of trouble with things that

1862
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:22,719
he says

1863
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:24,640
um

1864
01:13:28,790 --> 01:13:26,560
and

1865
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:28,800
it's it's kind of hard for me to believe

1866
01:13:34,229 --> 01:13:31,040
some of the things that he says

1867
01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:34,239
and he's always he always leaves himself

1868
01:13:41,669 --> 01:13:36,880
a loophole to joe bottom

1869
01:13:46,870 --> 01:13:44,390
you might say it it's interesting but

1870
01:13:48,709 --> 01:13:46,880
you know not uh

1871
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:48,719
we don't have the complete story that

1872
01:13:52,870 --> 01:13:51,040
that's what i'd say there yeah martin i

1873
01:13:55,030 --> 01:13:52,880
would just say that the wilson documents

1874
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:55,040
no different than the purported mj12

1875
01:14:00,390 --> 01:13:57,440
documents and others that have surfaced

1876
01:14:02,470 --> 01:14:00,400
uh if you believe that they're real it's

1877
01:14:04,790 --> 01:14:02,480
incumbent upon you to prove that they're

1878
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:04,800
valid not on us to prove that they're

1879
01:14:09,750 --> 01:14:07,120
not valid right

1880
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:09,760
yes so you know and i know with your

1881
01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:12,239
background and what you do provenance is

1882
01:14:17,510 --> 01:14:15,840
everything yes and so you know

1883
01:14:19,110 --> 01:14:17,520
barry greenwood wrote one of the best

1884
01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:19,120
books on the subject i just told him

1885
01:14:22,390 --> 01:14:20,560
yesterday i said you know yours is one

1886
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:22,400
of my top 10 books i i'm not just

1887
01:14:26,070 --> 01:14:24,000
blowing sunshine up your backside when i

1888
01:14:27,669 --> 01:14:26,080
say that i have a newspaper article from

1889
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:27,679
several years ago where i listed my top

1890
01:14:31,990 --> 01:14:30,000
10 books and his is listed on there but

1891
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:32,000
the reason i said that is there was a

1892
01:14:36,470 --> 01:14:34,000
lot of spurious material being printed

1893
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,480
at that time oh yeah yeah and the fact

1894
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:38,000
of the matter is

1895
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:40,239
and i know knowing barry and having seen

1896
01:14:44,870 --> 01:14:42,400
the documents that he's worked on he

1897
01:14:47,510 --> 01:14:44,880
went to the archives he went and filed

1898
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:47,520
foia requests he can demonstrate beyond

1899
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:49,760
a reasonable doubt these documents are

1900
01:14:53,910 --> 01:14:51,440
legitimate and this is where they came

1901
01:14:55,910 --> 01:14:53,920
from and if you don't believe me file a

1902
01:14:57,590 --> 01:14:55,920
foia request on these same documents and

1903
01:15:00,470 --> 01:14:57,600
you'll get what i got

1904
01:15:02,229 --> 01:15:00,480
here's the thing at the time uh we were

1905
01:15:05,189 --> 01:15:02,239
working on the documents

1906
01:15:06,630 --> 01:15:05,199
i i wanted to obtain credible material i

1907
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:06,640
wanted to get them directly from the

1908
01:15:10,950 --> 01:15:08,560
agencies and all not through anonymous

1909
01:15:12,630 --> 01:15:10,960
sources that you couldn't trust

1910
01:15:15,910 --> 01:15:12,640
to make a case that there was something

1911
01:15:17,750 --> 01:15:15,920
to the ufo phenomenon and

1912
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:17,760
we were getting all those documents and

1913
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:19,280
that doesn't mean that because

1914
01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:21,360
something's in the government file that

1915
01:15:25,669 --> 01:15:23,520
the information in it is absolutely

1916
01:15:27,030 --> 01:15:25,679
genuine they had information about hope

1917
01:15:28,870 --> 01:15:27,040
stories

1918
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:28,880
in government records they certainly are

1919
01:15:33,830 --> 01:15:31,440
not real but it at least you have the

1920
01:15:35,910 --> 01:15:33,840
chance to assess the information once

1921
01:15:37,510 --> 01:15:35,920
it's released officially

1922
01:15:39,590 --> 01:15:37,520
to determine where they were getting

1923
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:39,600
their information from and how credible

1924
01:15:45,350 --> 01:15:41,440
it was so they were trying to build a

1925
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:45,360
case that that the documents

1926
01:15:49,350 --> 01:15:47,280
proved that it was an unexplained

1927
01:15:51,590 --> 01:15:49,360
phenomenon and then suddenly

1928
01:15:54,550 --> 01:15:51,600
after that became popular that that

1929
01:15:56,950 --> 01:15:54,560
foyers were discussed in the press and

1930
01:15:59,350 --> 01:15:56,960
and the uh the over flights and other

1931
01:16:01,590 --> 01:15:59,360
military type incidents were getting

1932
01:16:03,430 --> 01:16:01,600
into the newspapers

1933
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,440
people started

1934
01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:04,640
issuing

1935
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:08,400
hoaxes fake documents from wherever

1936
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:10,320
the distinguishing feature of them was

1937
01:16:13,270 --> 01:16:11,920
they weren't coming from official

1938
01:16:14,709 --> 01:16:13,280
sources

1939
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:14,719
and uh

1940
01:16:20,229 --> 01:16:18,000
it was tainting the the water in this

1941
01:16:21,750 --> 01:16:20,239
whole controversy i was trying to build

1942
01:16:23,030 --> 01:16:21,760
a case and these people are trying to

1943
01:16:25,990 --> 01:16:23,040
shoot it down

1944
01:16:28,229 --> 01:16:26,000
uh for whatever self-promoting purpose

1945
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:28,239
they had we had to spend a great deal of

1946
01:16:31,189 --> 01:16:29,040
time

1947
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:31,199
examining these documents and pulling

1948
01:16:34,550 --> 01:16:32,880
them apart to see

1949
01:16:36,470 --> 01:16:34,560
what they were all about

1950
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,480
and it was very disappointing to have to

1951
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:38,239
do that because i wanted to spend that

1952
01:16:43,990 --> 01:16:41,920
time on legitimate serious research i

1953
01:16:46,229 --> 01:16:44,000
was forced to examine these things

1954
01:16:49,110 --> 01:16:46,239
because they were being given equal or

1955
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:49,120
maybe more than equal treatment uh

1956
01:16:52,310 --> 01:16:51,120
by the outside world and i we have to

1957
01:16:54,550 --> 01:16:52,320
explain

1958
01:16:56,470 --> 01:16:54,560
this isn't what you think it is

1959
01:16:57,590 --> 01:16:56,480
right and martin if i could just add to

1960
01:16:58,950 --> 01:16:57,600
that brief

1961
01:17:02,070 --> 01:16:58,960
we're talking in the context of

1962
01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:02,080
documents but i would you know ask your

1963
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:03,679
audience when you're going to ufo

1964
01:17:08,470 --> 01:17:05,520
conferences when you're listening to

1965
01:17:10,390 --> 01:17:08,480
other podcasts with different people on

1966
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,400
you should be asking the same question

1967
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:12,640
not only of documents and and their

1968
01:17:15,910 --> 01:17:14,159
origins

1969
01:17:18,229 --> 01:17:15,920
some of the ridiculous and spurious

1970
01:17:20,550 --> 01:17:18,239
claims made by pseudo researchers in the

1971
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:20,560
field that are spouting the most

1972
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:22,640
ridiculous minutia

1973
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:24,320
you should be asking

1974
01:17:28,390 --> 01:17:26,239
where are you getting this information

1975
01:17:30,630 --> 01:17:28,400
you know show me where you got this

1976
01:17:32,550 --> 01:17:30,640
information because too often in this

1977
01:17:33,669 --> 01:17:32,560
field we have again i call them pseudo

1978
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:33,679
researchers

1979
01:17:38,550 --> 01:17:36,000
that are all about sensationalism and

1980
01:17:42,229 --> 01:17:38,560
they're constantly quoting unnamed

1981
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:42,239
sources i can't my source translated you

1982
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,239
can't verify what i'm telling you i mean

1983
01:17:48,149 --> 01:17:46,480
that's how i interpret it and admittedly

1984
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:48,159
there are sensitive people in sensitive

1985
01:17:51,669 --> 01:17:50,080
positions that have to be careful but

1986
01:17:54,229 --> 01:17:51,679
when you have researchers that are

1987
01:17:56,630 --> 01:17:54,239
consistently where it's the rule not the

1988
01:17:58,630 --> 01:17:56,640
exception saying well i got this from an

1989
01:18:00,870 --> 01:17:58,640
unnamed source

1990
01:18:02,390 --> 01:18:00,880
i have to question that and for those

1991
01:18:03,830 --> 01:18:02,400
that have attended my lectures at

1992
01:18:05,270 --> 01:18:03,840
conferences the one thing that i get

1993
01:18:07,350 --> 01:18:05,280
complimented on more than anything

1994
01:18:09,030 --> 01:18:07,360
martin and it's gratifying they say you

1995
01:18:10,149 --> 01:18:09,040
know i always love your presentations

1996
01:18:13,189 --> 01:18:10,159
because at the bottom of every

1997
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:13,199
powerpoint slide you have your source

1998
01:18:17,750 --> 01:18:14,400
hmm

1999
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:17,760
yes and let me ask you this how

2000
01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:19,920
much of what you were talking about

2001
01:18:24,229 --> 01:18:21,600
barry earlier

2002
01:18:26,669 --> 01:18:24,239
um how much of this would you think or

2003
01:18:28,229 --> 01:18:26,679
is any of it could possibly be

2004
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,239
disinformation

2005
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:30,880
and i know when you're mixing things in

2006
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,480
you a lot of times you know the

2007
01:18:35,669 --> 01:18:34,560
disinformation works really great when

2008
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:35,679
there's a little

2009
01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:37,600
little sliver of truth

2010
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:40,560
uh mixed in with the batch well you know

2011
01:18:47,990 --> 01:18:43,600
mj 12 was a slight example of that

2012
01:18:53,590 --> 01:18:50,310
in that around 1980 there was an

2013
01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:53,600
incident reported in new mexico uh

2014
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:56,320
manzano weapon storage area documents

2015
01:19:01,669 --> 01:18:59,600
were explaining how ufos were seen and

2016
01:19:04,709 --> 01:19:01,679
not very far from here right it's very

2017
01:19:07,270 --> 01:19:04,719
close to where i am

2018
01:19:09,350 --> 01:19:07,280
but but these these papers are written

2019
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:09,360
up and there was a uh

2020
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:11,840
a special agent who was looking into

2021
01:19:16,630 --> 01:19:13,679
them his name figured prominently in

2022
01:19:17,910 --> 01:19:16,640
these papers richard dodie who is

2023
01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:17,920
familiar now

2024
01:19:22,149 --> 01:19:20,320
uh but he um

2025
01:19:23,990 --> 01:19:22,159
he uh he

2026
01:19:25,110 --> 01:19:24,000
looked into these reports while he was

2027
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,120
still uh

2028
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:27,840
with osi

2029
01:19:33,669 --> 01:19:31,679
and uh one day i was watching television

2030
01:19:36,550 --> 01:19:33,679
and there was a documentary on i think

2031
01:19:38,950 --> 01:19:36,560
it was a san francisco program

2032
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:38,960
called the ufo experience and and

2033
01:19:43,990 --> 01:19:40,800
towards the end of it uh

2034
01:19:45,750 --> 01:19:44,000
they they showed documents which were

2035
01:19:47,590 --> 01:19:45,760
about this very same

2036
01:19:49,830 --> 01:19:47,600
series of events

2037
01:19:52,229 --> 01:19:49,840
uh

2038
01:19:55,270 --> 01:19:52,239
they were flash for an unusual amount of

2039
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:55,280
time i was videotaping the program and i

2040
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:57,120
was able to freeze frame it and take

2041
01:20:00,950 --> 01:19:59,600
down some of the information

2042
01:20:03,350 --> 01:20:00,960
and uh

2043
01:20:06,149 --> 01:20:03,360
i used that information to file a foia

2044
01:20:07,510 --> 01:20:06,159
request on the documents they look

2045
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,520
genuine they look like government

2046
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:09,360
documents and all and

2047
01:20:14,870 --> 01:20:11,440
i thought maybe we could get more than

2048
01:20:16,950 --> 01:20:14,880
what were shown so a short time later i

2049
01:20:18,629 --> 01:20:16,960
did receive a four-year release from the

2050
01:20:20,870 --> 01:20:18,639
air force

2051
01:20:22,709 --> 01:20:20,880
with containing these documents but the

2052
01:20:24,709 --> 01:20:22,719
odd thing was that they looked a little

2053
01:20:27,669 --> 01:20:24,719
different they weren't the exact same

2054
01:20:29,430 --> 01:20:27,679
documents the markings were

2055
01:20:30,950 --> 01:20:29,440
different from the ones on the

2056
01:20:34,149 --> 01:20:30,960
television and all

2057
01:20:36,550 --> 01:20:34,159
and as time went along uh it

2058
01:20:38,390 --> 01:20:36,560
became evident that this this

2059
01:20:39,270 --> 01:20:38,400
dodie fellow

2060
01:20:40,870 --> 01:20:39,280
was

2061
01:20:42,950 --> 01:20:40,880
involved with the subject far more

2062
01:20:45,910 --> 01:20:42,960
deeply than anyone realized he wasn't

2063
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:45,920
just an afosi investigator her

2064
01:20:49,590 --> 01:20:46,800
but

2065
01:20:51,350 --> 01:20:49,600
he was involved in other stories too it

2066
01:20:53,830 --> 01:20:51,360
seemed to be traceable all the way back

2067
01:20:56,310 --> 01:20:53,840
to a hoax from elgeworth air force base

2068
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:56,320
in the late 70s

2069
01:21:00,870 --> 01:20:57,760
but

2070
01:21:02,629 --> 01:21:00,880
apparently what he was doing was he was

2071
01:21:04,390 --> 01:21:02,639
creating

2072
01:21:06,629 --> 01:21:04,400
uh

2073
01:21:09,430 --> 01:21:06,639
information about ufo sightings and

2074
01:21:12,229 --> 01:21:09,440
mixing it in with with fiction

2075
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:12,239
and and getting the documents filed

2076
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:14,800
officially with an osi

2077
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:15,840
really

2078
01:21:19,590 --> 01:21:17,760
and uh

2079
01:21:21,830 --> 01:21:19,600
it was meant to be

2080
01:21:23,910 --> 01:21:21,840
shown somewhere so that someone could

2081
01:21:27,270 --> 01:21:23,920
file a request and get an official

2082
01:21:29,350 --> 01:21:27,280
release of these planted documents

2083
01:21:32,070 --> 01:21:29,360
and that's what happened in this case uh

2084
01:21:34,390 --> 01:21:32,080
i i was the unwitting dupe i think they

2085
01:21:36,470 --> 01:21:34,400
called me one time that they wanted

2086
01:21:38,629 --> 01:21:36,480
someone to file a toy request and there

2087
01:21:40,629 --> 01:21:38,639
i was doing it for them

2088
01:21:43,030 --> 01:21:40,639
i had no idea what was going on

2089
01:21:44,790 --> 01:21:43,040
obviously but that's what happened they

2090
01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:44,800
called them the useful idiot the useful

2091
01:21:49,030 --> 01:21:47,120
idiot yeah right right

2092
01:21:51,669 --> 01:21:49,040
we can all be that

2093
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:51,679
so uh ellsworth air force base robert

2094
01:21:56,470 --> 01:21:53,120
todd

2095
01:21:57,830 --> 01:21:56,480
wrote to every unit on ellsworth air

2096
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:57,840
force base

2097
01:22:01,910 --> 01:22:00,320
every unit and

2098
01:22:04,390 --> 01:22:01,920
their their

2099
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:06,870
the

2100
01:22:15,350 --> 01:22:13,920
top

2101
01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:15,360
uh

2102
01:22:21,910 --> 01:22:19,830
supervisors of

2103
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:21,920
these types of units

2104
01:22:31,990 --> 01:22:29,669
everybody at ellsworth air force base

2105
01:22:34,390 --> 01:22:32,000
said this never happened

2106
01:22:37,669 --> 01:22:34,400
including

2107
01:22:40,870 --> 01:22:37,679
uh and then the pentagon

2108
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:40,880
information came in every supervisor of

2109
01:22:43,669 --> 01:22:41,679
this

2110
01:22:45,750 --> 01:22:43,679
you know like the missile supervisor

2111
01:22:48,149 --> 01:22:45,760
maintenance supervisors

2112
01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:48,159
the mp supervisors

2113
01:22:51,750 --> 01:22:49,120
and

2114
01:22:53,030 --> 01:22:51,760
afosi

2115
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:53,040
of

2116
01:22:58,870 --> 01:22:56,080
special investigations all denied that

2117
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:58,880
those documents were real

2118
01:23:02,310 --> 01:23:00,960
so it was pretty well

2119
01:23:04,830 --> 01:23:02,320
covered

2120
01:23:07,270 --> 01:23:04,840
as to whether these documents have any

2121
01:23:10,870 --> 01:23:07,280
uh um

2122
01:23:13,990 --> 01:23:12,229
provenance

2123
01:23:15,910 --> 01:23:14,000
one of the things uh

2124
01:23:17,110 --> 01:23:15,920
i think i think todd got a letter that

2125
01:23:18,870 --> 01:23:17,120
said uh

2126
01:23:21,030 --> 01:23:18,880
that we're investigating where they

2127
01:23:23,590 --> 01:23:21,040
possibly came from

2128
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,550
yeah it was

2129
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:30,149
so it's

2130
01:23:36,310 --> 01:23:33,430
you know there's people in uh

2131
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:36,320
inside the military that are

2132
01:23:39,990 --> 01:23:38,639
misbehaved too

2133
01:23:42,790 --> 01:23:40,000
yeah sure

2134
01:23:44,229 --> 01:23:42,800
yeah i'm sure you can i'm sure you can

2135
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:44,239
learn a lot

2136
01:23:48,550 --> 01:23:47,520
from the the disinformation i mean just

2137
01:23:51,510 --> 01:23:48,560
kind of

2138
01:23:53,750 --> 01:23:51,520
when i say learn a lot maybe you can

2139
01:23:55,990 --> 01:23:53,760
try to figure out what they're trying to

2140
01:23:59,270 --> 01:23:56,000
do and what what is the outcome they're

2141
01:24:03,830 --> 01:24:01,430
well yeah there's another thing about

2142
01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:03,840
dodie and being involved in that story

2143
01:24:08,310 --> 01:24:05,920
too

2144
01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:08,320
the motivation can be

2145
01:24:15,350 --> 01:24:11,600
different things behind it i i

2146
01:24:18,390 --> 01:24:15,360
i wrote a paper in 2007 with brad sparks

2147
01:24:20,390 --> 01:24:18,400
and we discussed that whole

2148
01:24:23,510 --> 01:24:20,400
business with the

2149
01:24:26,550 --> 01:24:23,520
dodie and and paul benowitz and

2150
01:24:30,149 --> 01:24:26,560
and later mj-12 developments and we'd

2151
01:24:32,070 --> 01:24:30,159
come to different conclusions about it

2152
01:24:34,149 --> 01:24:32,080
he thought it wasn't

2153
01:24:36,629 --> 01:24:34,159
coming down from

2154
01:24:39,110 --> 01:24:36,639
people in afosi and perhaps higher than

2155
01:24:42,310 --> 01:24:39,120
that as a disinformation campaign

2156
01:24:44,870 --> 01:24:42,320
i heard evidence uh repeatedly

2157
01:24:47,750 --> 01:24:44,880
from participants in the story not not

2158
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:47,760
necessarily military people but uh

2159
01:24:52,070 --> 01:24:49,920
that that there was a money motivation

2160
01:24:54,790 --> 01:24:52,080
behind it what a lot of people don't

2161
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:54,800
know is that mj 12

2162
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:57,520
had its very very early origins in a

2163
01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:00,080
fiction novel that was written by some

2164
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:03,120
of the participants uh dodie bill moore

2165
01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:05,280
and robert pratt

2166
01:25:09,430 --> 01:25:07,199
who was a reporter for the national

2167
01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:09,440
enquirer and he was he didn't

2168
01:25:13,430 --> 01:25:11,120
necessarily believe the story he was

2169
01:25:16,149 --> 01:25:13,440
just writing it up as fiction

2170
01:25:19,110 --> 01:25:16,159
and when

2171
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:19,120
when word leaked out about mj 12 and all

2172
01:25:23,590 --> 01:25:21,199
he uh he was pretty adamant that there

2173
01:25:25,990 --> 01:25:23,600
was nothing to it but

2174
01:25:27,669 --> 01:25:26,000
there was this manuscript which was the

2175
01:25:29,350 --> 01:25:27,679
property of three different people and

2176
01:25:31,990 --> 01:25:29,360
they couldn't circulate

2177
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:32,000
so it was hard to prove anything but

2178
01:25:36,310 --> 01:25:34,320
he was a writer one of the writers of it

2179
01:25:37,990 --> 01:25:36,320
and uh he asserted that

2180
01:25:40,390 --> 01:25:38,000
it was nonsense

2181
01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:40,400
so uh

2182
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:42,719
to me it was money that was behind that

2183
01:25:46,470 --> 01:25:44,719
they wanted to cash in on a story

2184
01:25:49,110 --> 01:25:46,480
started as fiction but they turned it

2185
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:49,120
into an alleged fact and they went

2186
01:25:52,390 --> 01:25:50,560
pretty far with it they were on

2187
01:25:55,669 --> 01:25:52,400
television and

2188
01:25:57,430 --> 01:25:55,679
you remember the ufo cover-up live show

2189
01:25:59,350 --> 01:25:57,440
that was pretty easy

2190
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:59,360
in the strawberry ice cream and tibetan

2191
01:26:05,390 --> 01:26:00,800
music and

2192
01:26:09,350 --> 01:26:07,030
disinformation

2193
01:26:11,990 --> 01:26:09,360
that's a soviet word

2194
01:26:13,110 --> 01:26:12,000
now i i've had people tell me

2195
01:26:15,669 --> 01:26:13,120
um

2196
01:26:19,189 --> 01:26:15,679
you know this uh office symbol on

2197
01:26:22,950 --> 01:26:19,199
colonel weaver's letters that's

2198
01:26:24,629 --> 01:26:22,960
that's uh air force's dis information

2199
01:26:25,990 --> 01:26:24,639
organization

2200
01:26:27,750 --> 01:26:26,000
i said

2201
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:27,760
you know what you're showing

2202
01:26:35,590 --> 01:26:30,960
great ignorance in disinformation is a

2203
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:36,870
and uh

2204
01:26:41,830 --> 01:26:40,790
there is

2205
01:26:45,030 --> 01:26:41,840
you know

2206
01:26:48,790 --> 01:26:45,040
opsec where you don't tell people what's

2207
01:26:52,390 --> 01:26:48,800
going on or you give them a cover story

2208
01:26:56,629 --> 01:26:52,400
but uh the word is not

2209
01:26:59,830 --> 01:26:56,639
used in the u.s military lexicon except

2210
01:27:03,030 --> 01:26:59,840
referring to the soviets or the russians

2211
01:27:06,750 --> 01:27:03,040
or other people overseas

2212
01:27:09,430 --> 01:27:06,760
it's we don't have a department of

2213
01:27:11,590 --> 01:27:09,440
disinformation and colonel weaver who

2214
01:27:14,830 --> 01:27:11,600
was in charge of declassification at the

2215
01:27:17,350 --> 01:27:14,840
time was not a was not the head of the

2216
01:27:20,229 --> 01:27:17,360
disinformation agency

2217
01:27:22,390 --> 01:27:20,239
yeah um you know i i brought that

2218
01:27:24,229 --> 01:27:22,400
subject up and by the way for those of

2219
01:27:25,910 --> 01:27:24,239
you watching live i'll be posting your

2220
01:27:27,910 --> 01:27:25,920
questions here just starting again in

2221
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:27,920
just a minute here but i brought that up

2222
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:30,880
to um lou elizondo when he was on my

2223
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:33,040
show and by the way he'll be back in

2224
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:36,400
december as well but when he was on

2225
01:27:39,990 --> 01:27:37,440
uh

2226
01:27:41,750 --> 01:27:40,000
i i said a number of people are claiming

2227
01:27:43,510 --> 01:27:41,760
that you're a disinformation agent and

2228
01:27:47,030 --> 01:27:43,520
what do you think of that and he was he

2229
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:47,040
was very uh passionate and

2230
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:48,000
very

2231
01:27:53,590 --> 01:27:50,960
uh upset that there's so many people

2232
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:53,600
claiming that that's what he is

2233
01:27:57,830 --> 01:27:56,400
um and he said he would never ever you

2234
01:27:59,189 --> 01:27:57,840
know put any

2235
01:28:01,590 --> 01:27:59,199
you know

2236
01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:01,600
for what what would be the reason he

2237
01:28:06,709 --> 01:28:04,800
would be doing that that was basically

2238
01:28:08,629 --> 01:28:06,719
uh you know what he was coming back what

2239
01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:08,639
what would be his motivation for doing

2240
01:28:11,510 --> 01:28:09,360
that

2241
01:28:13,350 --> 01:28:11,520
um so anyway questions and caps please

2242
01:28:16,390 --> 01:28:13,360
but i did catch this one what are the

2243
01:28:18,470 --> 01:28:16,400
most compelling ufo report patterns the

2244
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:18,480
nuclear weapons connection

2245
01:28:23,910 --> 01:28:21,679
the water and oceans association

2246
01:28:25,990 --> 01:28:23,920
in parentheses may be explaining the us

2247
01:28:29,110 --> 01:28:26,000
navy initiative

2248
01:28:32,149 --> 01:28:29,120
unquote i mean on bracket the abduction

2249
01:28:34,950 --> 01:28:32,159
phenomenon what is the most compelling

2250
01:28:35,910 --> 01:28:34,960
patterns wow

2251
01:28:37,590 --> 01:28:35,920
well

2252
01:28:39,830 --> 01:28:37,600
from my point of view the nuclear

2253
01:28:40,870 --> 01:28:39,840
weapons connection i

2254
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:40,880
again

2255
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:44,400
for the umpteenth time i thought the 75

2256
01:28:49,830 --> 01:28:46,800
overflights were pretty dramatic as far

2257
01:28:52,550 --> 01:28:49,840
as showing interest in nuclear and

2258
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:52,560
military facilities and testing national

2259
01:28:59,270 --> 01:28:56,880
security uh that that to me was

2260
01:29:01,750 --> 01:28:59,280
still an amazing series of

2261
01:29:04,390 --> 01:29:01,760
events i don't know what was behind it

2262
01:29:06,629 --> 01:29:04,400
all maybe not everything was

2263
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:06,639
exotic but certainly some parts of it

2264
01:29:10,790 --> 01:29:08,400
were

2265
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:10,800
we had a guest last week

2266
01:29:16,550 --> 01:29:12,880
that had his sighting when he was in the

2267
01:29:18,790 --> 01:29:16,560
army service and back in 1992 he was

2268
01:29:21,750 --> 01:29:18,800
stationed up in canada for military

2269
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,760
training uh when he had an amazing ufo

2270
01:29:26,229 --> 01:29:23,440
encounter

2271
01:29:27,189 --> 01:29:26,239
since he went out there and talked about

2272
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:27,199
it he

2273
01:29:31,669 --> 01:29:30,880
has been contacted by someone who's

2274
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:31,679
um

2275
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:34,080
an aunt says that her husband and uncle

2276
01:29:37,910 --> 01:29:35,520
long retired

2277
01:29:39,669 --> 01:29:37,920
of back in the 19 i believe he said the

2278
01:29:44,229 --> 01:29:39,679
1970s

2279
01:29:46,470 --> 01:29:44,239
had a ufo nuclear warhead uh situation

2280
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:46,480
another a person i'm trying trying to

2281
01:29:50,629 --> 01:29:48,880
follow up with him i'd love to find out

2282
01:29:53,510 --> 01:29:50,639
uh because he's never he said he would

2283
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:53,520
never speak about it perhaps he will

2284
01:29:57,910 --> 01:29:55,440
now feel a little more comfortable these

2285
01:29:59,990 --> 01:29:57,920
days than he would have said before the

2286
01:30:02,790 --> 01:30:00,000
last few years yeah

2287
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:02,800
but that would be interesting

2288
01:30:08,790 --> 01:30:05,600
the nuclear business it's very hard to

2289
01:30:10,790 --> 01:30:08,800
elicit information about it in relation

2290
01:30:12,550 --> 01:30:10,800
to ufo reports because they're pretty

2291
01:30:15,990 --> 01:30:12,560
much exempt

2292
01:30:18,070 --> 01:30:16,000
uh from foia scrutiny that's obviously a

2293
01:30:20,550 --> 01:30:18,080
very sensitive topic and

2294
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:20,560
you can't really invest most of that

2295
01:30:23,110 --> 01:30:21,840
data

2296
01:30:24,870 --> 01:30:23,120
to very

2297
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:24,880
to barry's point though martin in

2298
01:30:29,030 --> 01:30:26,960
reference to the question uh beyond

2299
01:30:31,350 --> 01:30:29,040
nuclear weapons it's interesting to see

2300
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:31,360
the correlation even here in new mexico

2301
01:30:36,870 --> 01:30:34,560
specifically with ufo sightings during

2302
01:30:38,390 --> 01:30:36,880
the development of the atomic bomb uh

2303
01:30:41,430 --> 01:30:38,400
during the development of the hydrogen

2304
01:30:43,590 --> 01:30:41,440
bomb at los alamos i have original front

2305
01:30:46,149 --> 01:30:43,600
page newspaper headlines citing

2306
01:30:49,189 --> 01:30:46,159
scientists and security personnel that

2307
01:30:51,430 --> 01:30:49,199
were witnessing ufos over los alamos and

2308
01:30:54,070 --> 01:30:51,440
so beyond the documents that we may not

2309
01:30:56,229 --> 01:30:54,080
have access to as very alluded to even

2310
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:56,239
in the newspapers from that time period

2311
01:30:59,270 --> 01:30:57,920
a lot of that information leaked out to

2312
01:31:01,750 --> 01:30:59,280
the press

2313
01:31:05,110 --> 01:31:01,760
and so the work of barry and the work of

2314
01:31:07,590 --> 01:31:05,120
robert hastings has really i think shown

2315
01:31:09,990 --> 01:31:07,600
that strong correlation between nuclear

2316
01:31:12,950 --> 01:31:10,000
weapons nuclear storage nuclear

2317
01:31:15,110 --> 01:31:12,960
development and ufos

2318
01:31:18,470 --> 01:31:15,120
yeah there's absolutely

2319
01:31:20,709 --> 01:31:18,480
called ufos and nukes by robert hayes

2320
01:31:23,430 --> 01:31:20,719
so it's quite a read

2321
01:31:25,750 --> 01:31:23,440
yes and you look at it this way too

2322
01:31:28,070 --> 01:31:25,760
when you hear you know the uap task

2323
01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:28,080
force and basically you know i'm talking

2324
01:31:31,990 --> 01:31:28,960
about

2325
01:31:33,830 --> 01:31:32,000
um that there's they're only gonna study

2326
01:31:35,830 --> 01:31:33,840
cases 2004

2327
01:31:36,870 --> 01:31:35,840
forward that type of thing

2328
01:31:39,189 --> 01:31:36,880
um

2329
01:31:41,830 --> 01:31:39,199
and this is supposed to be about threats

2330
01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:41,840
wouldn't you think that nuclear warheads

2331
01:31:47,110 --> 01:31:45,040
or any type of nuclear situation and

2332
01:31:50,709 --> 01:31:47,120
interruptions disruptions of any kind

2333
01:31:52,950 --> 01:31:50,719
would be major national security and

2334
01:31:56,950 --> 01:31:52,960
they'd want to focus on finding the

2335
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:58,390
from background let me tell you one

2336
01:32:01,830 --> 01:31:59,679
thing that's missing from the

2337
01:32:05,350 --> 01:32:01,840
preliminary report

2338
01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:05,360
they're talking about the agencies

2339
01:32:10,830 --> 01:32:07,840
and and the other associated documents

2340
01:32:13,590 --> 01:32:10,840
by but by uh assistant

2341
01:32:15,830 --> 01:32:13,600
secretary linton of the

2342
01:32:17,830 --> 01:32:15,840
dod

2343
01:32:20,229 --> 01:32:17,840
they're not addressed to the defense

2344
01:32:22,550 --> 01:32:20,239
nuclear agency

2345
01:32:24,629 --> 01:32:22,560
it says here's a list of things you know

2346
01:32:27,830 --> 01:32:24,639
here's a list of commands that should

2347
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:27,840
respond to that

2348
01:32:32,310 --> 01:32:30,000
what about well it's not called the new

2349
01:32:35,110 --> 01:32:32,320
i forget what what it changed to it's

2350
01:32:36,550 --> 01:32:35,120
changed to something similar but the

2351
01:32:39,030 --> 01:32:36,560
uh

2352
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:39,040
the defense nuclear agency is for

2353
01:32:42,870 --> 01:32:40,960
incidents and uh

2354
01:32:45,990 --> 01:32:42,880
one of the things that they do is

2355
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:46,000
or they did was incidents and

2356
01:32:52,470 --> 01:32:48,719
accidents about

2357
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:52,480
nuclear weapons why is that left off

2358
01:32:58,390 --> 01:32:55,920
it's left off in the preliminary report

2359
01:33:00,870 --> 01:32:58,400
i'm saying what what what

2360
01:33:02,629 --> 01:33:00,880
yes what what mark martin let me give

2361
01:33:04,310 --> 01:33:02,639
you an analogy this is this is how i

2362
01:33:05,990 --> 01:33:04,320
kind of view the situation with regard

2363
01:33:08,870 --> 01:33:06,000
to their their hesitancy to look at

2364
01:33:10,870 --> 01:33:08,880
anything prior to 2004 imagine you're a

2365
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:10,880
new police investigator that's working

2366
01:33:14,070 --> 01:33:12,480
on a police department

2367
01:33:17,590 --> 01:33:14,080
and you've been informed that there's

2368
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:17,600
been a number of burglaries in your city

2369
01:33:21,430 --> 01:33:19,840
in in various areas

2370
01:33:23,189 --> 01:33:21,440
and you come on board and you say you

2371
01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:23,199
know what i'm going to investigate these

2372
01:33:26,790 --> 01:33:25,600
burglaries moving forward but i'm not

2373
01:33:28,310 --> 01:33:26,800
going to look at the information that

2374
01:33:29,669 --> 01:33:28,320
you've gathered over the last year and a

2375
01:33:30,709 --> 01:33:29,679
half

2376
01:33:32,229 --> 01:33:30,719
even though if you look at the

2377
01:33:34,229 --> 01:33:32,239
information that's been gathered you

2378
01:33:36,149 --> 01:33:34,239
could plot and see well where are these

2379
01:33:37,669 --> 01:33:36,159
burglaries occurring which might give

2380
01:33:40,310 --> 01:33:37,679
you a better indication of where the

2381
01:33:42,629 --> 01:33:40,320
future burglaries are going to occur

2382
01:33:44,550 --> 01:33:42,639
it's it's just it's putting blinders on

2383
01:33:46,390 --> 01:33:44,560
it's it's i think institutional

2384
01:33:48,709 --> 01:33:46,400
ignorance not to take advantage of the

2385
01:33:52,390 --> 01:33:48,719
data that we have available

2386
01:33:53,669 --> 01:33:52,400
right i i agree absolutely um

2387
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:53,679
now this was just a thought i had

2388
01:33:56,629 --> 01:33:55,120
earlier and again i'm going to be

2389
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:56,639
posting up these questions and i do

2390
01:33:59,910 --> 01:33:58,719
appreciate in chat uh you're posting

2391
01:34:01,669 --> 01:33:59,920
those questions

2392
01:34:02,550 --> 01:34:01,679
but um

2393
01:34:09,910 --> 01:34:02,560
if

2394
01:34:12,629 --> 01:34:09,920
extraterrestrial hypothesis is not

2395
01:34:14,950 --> 01:34:12,639
would not be part of what we're seeing

2396
01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:14,960
um and this is just a speculation

2397
01:34:20,790 --> 01:34:17,120
question for anyone that wants to tackle

2398
01:34:21,830 --> 01:34:20,800
it um what would be the next possible

2399
01:34:24,229 --> 01:34:21,840
idea

2400
01:34:25,990 --> 01:34:24,239
or is it a bunch of different things

2401
01:34:27,910 --> 01:34:26,000
possibly

2402
01:34:30,149 --> 01:34:27,920
i don't speculate i'll leave it to the

2403
01:34:33,189 --> 01:34:30,159
others

2404
01:34:35,189 --> 01:34:33,199
okay good i i i'll just add and again i

2405
01:34:36,629 --> 01:34:35,199
i put this in my book several years ago

2406
01:34:38,709 --> 01:34:36,639
that if we're not dealing with the

2407
01:34:40,229 --> 01:34:38,719
extraterrestrial hypothesis

2408
01:34:42,550 --> 01:34:40,239
uh in other words something coming from

2409
01:34:43,669 --> 01:34:42,560
another star system and traveling vast

2410
01:34:46,070 --> 01:34:43,679
distances

2411
01:34:47,590 --> 01:34:46,080
and really all the all of i find

2412
01:34:50,229 --> 01:34:47,600
interesting martin all the skeptical

2413
01:34:52,390 --> 01:34:50,239
classic arguments are hinged on that

2414
01:34:53,669 --> 01:34:52,400
well what if we're dealing with string

2415
01:34:55,669 --> 01:34:53,679
theory and what if we're dealing with

2416
01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:55,679
multiverses multiple dimensions that

2417
01:35:00,550 --> 01:34:57,840
coexist all of those

2418
01:35:02,310 --> 01:35:00,560
conservative classic arguments fall by

2419
01:35:04,270 --> 01:35:02,320
the wayside because we're dealing with a

2420
01:35:07,030 --> 01:35:04,280
whole different dynamic uh the

2421
01:35:09,830 --> 01:35:07,040
interdimensional hypothesis might be

2422
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:09,840
viable uh i know there's been some

2423
01:35:13,669 --> 01:35:12,000
mainstream scientists now looking saying

2424
01:35:14,709 --> 01:35:13,679
perhaps it's time travelers from the

2425
01:35:16,229 --> 01:35:14,719
future

2426
01:35:18,149 --> 01:35:16,239
uh you know at the end of the day

2427
01:35:20,310 --> 01:35:18,159
despite us being surrounded by all this

2428
01:35:22,070 --> 01:35:20,320
information we still don't have enough

2429
01:35:24,390 --> 01:35:22,080
information to really give us insights i

2430
01:35:25,189 --> 01:35:24,400
think definitively and to eat any one of

2431
01:35:27,830 --> 01:35:25,199
these

2432
01:35:30,149 --> 01:35:27,840
uh various theories but i think the

2433
01:35:31,910 --> 01:35:30,159
interdimensional one is is highly

2434
01:35:34,550 --> 01:35:31,920
intriguing

2435
01:35:36,310 --> 01:35:34,560
yes i do too um you know some people

2436
01:35:37,669 --> 01:35:36,320
claim that it might explain the reason

2437
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:37,679
there's no

2438
01:35:46,310 --> 01:35:44,400
whatever with the travel involved and

2439
01:35:48,470 --> 01:35:46,320
how things you know appear and disappear

2440
01:35:50,629 --> 01:35:48,480
in different places things like that

2441
01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:50,639
it's it's all fascinating

2442
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:53,040
and you know um it it would just be

2443
01:35:56,390 --> 01:35:54,480
interesting to know what type of

2444
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:56,400
questions we should be thinking of when

2445
01:35:59,750 --> 01:35:58,639
we're looking into this right

2446
01:36:01,270 --> 01:35:59,760
yeah

2447
01:36:02,070 --> 01:36:01,280
all right i'm going to put up

2448
01:36:06,470 --> 01:36:02,080
this

2449
01:36:07,830 --> 01:36:06,480
the time as you know it

2450
01:36:10,390 --> 01:36:07,840
how do you

2451
01:36:13,030 --> 01:36:10,400
envision disclosure taking place if it

2452
01:36:14,629 --> 01:36:13,040
is if it ever is true anyone want to

2453
01:36:16,550 --> 01:36:14,639
tackle that one i'll just say real

2454
01:36:17,910 --> 01:36:16,560
briefly and i'll let my friends jump in

2455
01:36:20,310 --> 01:36:17,920
and i think we're already seeing it i

2456
01:36:22,950 --> 01:36:20,320
think it's playing out right now

2457
01:36:24,629 --> 01:36:22,960
uh-huh uh-huh yeah but i've heard other

2458
01:36:27,189 --> 01:36:24,639
people i've heard other people say the

2459
01:36:29,430 --> 01:36:27,199
same it's disclosure with a lowercase d

2460
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:29,440
not an uppercase d it's not disclosure

2461
01:36:32,229 --> 01:36:31,520
as many ufo proponents have envisioned

2462
01:36:34,310 --> 01:36:32,239
it

2463
01:36:36,229 --> 01:36:34,320
uh but i think we're seeing aggression i

2464
01:36:38,550 --> 01:36:36,239
mean it's been a major change as i

2465
01:36:40,149 --> 01:36:38,560
alluded to earlier it's a 180 degree

2466
01:36:42,390 --> 01:36:40,159
turn we've made

2467
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:42,400
in reference to denials official public

2468
01:36:45,910 --> 01:36:43,760
denials of the subject they're

2469
01:36:48,550 --> 01:36:45,920
acknowledging the phenomenon's real as

2470
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:48,560
barry alluded to that's a huge step

2471
01:36:53,669 --> 01:36:51,280
and uh i think we're starting to see

2472
01:36:56,470 --> 01:36:53,679
the opening

2473
01:36:58,550 --> 01:36:56,480
to a new era with regard to the subject

2474
01:37:00,390 --> 01:36:58,560
and the government's attitude towards

2475
01:37:03,030 --> 01:37:00,400
the subject

2476
01:37:05,590 --> 01:37:03,040
the question is even if it is disclosure

2477
01:37:07,109 --> 01:37:05,600
with the pentagon report to what level

2478
01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:07,119
are we going to get any additional

2479
01:37:10,790 --> 01:37:09,280
information because admittedly we really

2480
01:37:13,629 --> 01:37:10,800
don't know any more than we did the day

2481
01:37:16,790 --> 01:37:13,639
the pentagon report came out

2482
01:37:18,629 --> 01:37:16,800
disclosure of

2483
01:37:20,470 --> 01:37:18,639
how would you envision that

2484
01:37:23,270 --> 01:37:20,480
to me it would be

2485
01:37:26,470 --> 01:37:23,280
credible information about the origins

2486
01:37:29,669 --> 01:37:26,480
of the phenomenon uh from multiple high

2487
01:37:32,950 --> 01:37:29,679
up government sources whose

2488
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:32,960
credentials could not be impeached

2489
01:37:37,669 --> 01:37:34,639
what what he said

2490
01:37:38,709 --> 01:37:37,679
except to me closure is a four-letter

2491
01:37:40,470 --> 01:37:38,719
word

2492
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:40,480
and uh

2493
01:37:46,229 --> 01:37:42,800
uh people that use it we should get the

2494
01:37:48,629 --> 01:37:46,239
tar bucket and uh

2495
01:37:51,270 --> 01:37:48,639
i am so tired of this word

2496
01:37:52,629 --> 01:37:51,280
i don't believe that anybody has

2497
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:52,639
the answer

2498
01:37:58,070 --> 01:37:55,280
so we're not going to get disclosure

2499
01:37:59,830 --> 01:37:58,080
we're going to get more information

2500
01:38:02,790 --> 01:37:59,840
thank you yeah

2501
01:38:04,629 --> 01:38:02,800
that's what it would be if

2502
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:04,639
good information came out it would be

2503
01:38:08,070 --> 01:38:05,360
disclosed

2504
01:38:10,070 --> 01:38:08,080
[Music]

2505
01:38:13,030 --> 01:38:10,080
yeah you know

2506
01:38:14,790 --> 01:38:13,040
yeah well you know i've i've uh

2507
01:38:16,390 --> 01:38:14,800
of course i haven't been doing this

2508
01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:16,400
anywhere near as long

2509
01:38:20,790 --> 01:38:18,880
as uh any one of you have been doing

2510
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:20,800
this and i've heard that right from day

2511
01:38:25,430 --> 01:38:23,360
one um and but i also look back and i

2512
01:38:26,870 --> 01:38:25,440
think the 1960s and there was a

2513
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:26,880
gentleman talking

2514
01:38:30,950 --> 01:38:28,639
he didn't use the word disclosure he

2515
01:38:33,350 --> 01:38:30,960
says i just want the government to tell

2516
01:38:35,990 --> 01:38:33,360
in my lifetime i got to know what this

2517
01:38:38,950 --> 01:38:36,000
is and of course he's long gone by now

2518
01:38:41,590 --> 01:38:38,960
um and and i don't i don't know if we'll

2519
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:41,600
ever know you know um i don't i don't

2520
01:38:45,109 --> 01:38:43,520
know if we'll ever get the source

2521
01:38:47,189 --> 01:38:45,119
of the government just what you're

2522
01:38:49,669 --> 01:38:47,199
mentioning early earlier barry i don't

2523
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:49,679
think i mean

2524
01:38:53,910 --> 01:38:51,600
even if that happened exactly how you

2525
01:38:56,070 --> 01:38:53,920
just said barry do you think people

2526
01:38:57,910 --> 01:38:56,080
would believe it

2527
01:38:59,830 --> 01:38:57,920
you're always going to have people

2528
01:39:01,830 --> 01:38:59,840
dissenting from that they'll build out

2529
01:39:04,070 --> 01:39:01,840
every word of it even if it it's

2530
01:39:05,109 --> 01:39:04,080
entirely true it's just the nature of

2531
01:39:07,270 --> 01:39:05,119
people

2532
01:39:10,229 --> 01:39:07,280
uh you know sometimes to be agreeable

2533
01:39:12,870 --> 01:39:10,239
sometimes to be contrary

2534
01:39:14,950 --> 01:39:12,880
and then sometimes that contrariness

2535
01:39:18,070 --> 01:39:14,960
doesn't come from any reasoning it's

2536
01:39:20,310 --> 01:39:18,080
just being contrary yeah so uh

2537
01:39:22,310 --> 01:39:20,320
you'll get all sorts of opinions once

2538
01:39:24,070 --> 01:39:22,320
that happens and martin you've mentioned

2539
01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:24,080
this person from the 60s i believe you

2540
01:39:27,750 --> 01:39:25,920
said that was you know just to know the

2541
01:39:28,870 --> 01:39:27,760
truth you know before before they're

2542
01:39:30,629 --> 01:39:28,880
gone

2543
01:39:32,709 --> 01:39:30,639
what we have to and again i think this

2544
01:39:34,390 --> 01:39:32,719
is what is interesting about the

2545
01:39:36,070 --> 01:39:34,400
gentleman i'm with is looking at the

2546
01:39:37,669 --> 01:39:36,080
history looking at what was written

2547
01:39:40,550 --> 01:39:37,679
decades ago

2548
01:39:42,310 --> 01:39:40,560
disclosure is nothing new in the 50s and

2549
01:39:43,750 --> 01:39:42,320
the 60s there were rumors that the

2550
01:39:45,669 --> 01:39:43,760
government's going to release all this

2551
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:45,679
information we're hearing rumors right

2552
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:47,920
barry that this is all this information

2553
01:39:52,149 --> 01:39:50,239
is going to come out very very soon

2554
01:39:54,070 --> 01:39:52,159
radio shows that i've been digitizing

2555
01:39:55,830 --> 01:39:54,080
from the 60s and the 70s they were

2556
01:39:58,229 --> 01:39:55,840
saying the same thing

2557
01:39:59,990 --> 01:39:58,239
after decade after decade after decade

2558
01:40:02,629 --> 01:40:00,000
you have to have some skepticism with

2559
01:40:04,470 --> 01:40:02,639
regard to disclosure but again that

2560
01:40:06,070 --> 01:40:04,480
being said uh

2561
01:40:08,310 --> 01:40:06,080
the pentagon report

2562
01:40:10,149 --> 01:40:08,320
is here right and and they're they're

2563
01:40:13,030 --> 01:40:10,159
making new statements with regard to the

2564
01:40:14,629 --> 01:40:13,040
subject matter so i think it's a new era

2565
01:40:16,310 --> 01:40:14,639
with regard to the subject what do you

2566
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:16,320
want to call it disclosure i mean i

2567
01:40:20,229 --> 01:40:17,920
don't want to get hung up on labels but

2568
01:40:22,870 --> 01:40:20,239
we're definitely in a new era now we've

2569
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:22,880
been saying the things that are in the

2570
01:40:26,950 --> 01:40:25,199
task force report

2571
01:40:30,070 --> 01:40:26,960
years and years ago

2572
01:40:32,229 --> 01:40:30,080
but now the government is backing us up

2573
01:40:34,149 --> 01:40:32,239
in what we had said it's validating if

2574
01:40:35,270 --> 01:40:34,159
anything right exactly

2575
01:40:37,270 --> 01:40:35,280
so

2576
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:37,280
the hastings had a

2577
01:40:44,229 --> 01:40:39,840
navy fighter pilot

2578
01:40:46,149 --> 01:40:44,239
uh talked to him about uh sightings over

2579
01:40:47,830 --> 01:40:46,159
the hanford

2580
01:40:50,870 --> 01:40:47,840
nuclear plant

2581
01:40:53,590 --> 01:40:50,880
in in world war ii

2582
01:40:56,629 --> 01:40:53,600
and and he was

2583
01:41:00,870 --> 01:40:56,639
the navy was reconstituting

2584
01:41:03,990 --> 01:41:00,880
uh fighter squadrons and one of their

2585
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,000
missions was to investigate

2586
01:41:08,790 --> 01:41:06,800
aerial intrusions over the hanford plant

2587
01:41:10,950 --> 01:41:08,800
they moved radar in there and they moved

2588
01:41:14,070 --> 01:41:10,960
anti-aircraft in there

2589
01:41:16,470 --> 01:41:14,080
and this pilot is talking about

2590
01:41:18,790 --> 01:41:16,480
encountering these things over there

2591
01:41:19,910 --> 01:41:18,800
and to uh and then we had two other navy

2592
01:41:21,270 --> 01:41:19,920
pilots

2593
01:41:22,470 --> 01:41:21,280
had had

2594
01:41:23,669 --> 01:41:22,480
done this

2595
01:41:25,109 --> 01:41:23,679
so uh

2596
01:41:26,629 --> 01:41:25,119
barry found

2597
01:41:28,310 --> 01:41:26,639
an interview with the head of the

2598
01:41:30,390 --> 01:41:28,320
hanford plant

2599
01:41:34,629 --> 01:41:30,400
after they dropped the

2600
01:41:37,270 --> 01:41:34,639
uh bomb on uh nagasaki so the war is

2601
01:41:40,070 --> 01:41:37,280
over and he had promised the seattle

2602
01:41:42,229 --> 01:41:40,080
star i'll give you an exclusive

2603
01:41:43,350 --> 01:41:42,239
interview about what we're doing at

2604
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:43,360
hanford

2605
01:41:48,550 --> 01:41:46,239
and what's taking place here to the

2606
01:41:50,310 --> 01:41:48,560
reporter he said the day

2607
01:41:52,070 --> 01:41:50,320
the war is over

2608
01:41:53,510 --> 01:41:52,080
and so the reporter went up there and

2609
01:41:55,030 --> 01:41:53,520
got an interview

2610
01:41:57,189 --> 01:41:55,040
and he confirmed

2611
01:41:59,109 --> 01:41:57,199
one we moved radar in there we moved

2612
01:42:01,750 --> 01:41:59,119
anti-aircraft in there and we were

2613
01:42:06,149 --> 01:42:01,760
getting aerial intrusions

2614
01:42:08,149 --> 01:42:06,159
and i uh barry found that article i sent

2615
01:42:14,310 --> 01:42:08,159
it to hastings and he said

2616
01:42:19,990 --> 01:42:16,870
this this

2617
01:42:22,070 --> 01:42:20,000
this gets me emotional

2618
01:42:25,669 --> 01:42:22,080
but

2619
01:42:27,430 --> 01:42:25,679
here is his vindication

2620
01:42:29,750 --> 01:42:27,440
hear his voice

2621
01:42:34,310 --> 01:42:29,760
he told us

2622
01:42:38,390 --> 01:42:37,270
vindicated him

2623
01:42:40,629 --> 01:42:38,400
interesting

2624
01:42:44,550 --> 01:42:40,639
and do you remember what exactly what

2625
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:44,560
year that again that was changed in 1945

2626
01:42:49,109 --> 01:42:47,600
the war after 1945 yeah so it was going

2627
01:42:51,750 --> 01:42:49,119
on in 44

2628
01:42:53,910 --> 01:42:51,760
from january or december i think it was

2629
01:42:57,189 --> 01:42:53,920
december 44

2630
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:57,199
up until the uh hanford club plant you

2631
01:43:00,550 --> 01:42:57,920
know

2632
01:43:03,030 --> 01:43:00,560
after the war was over

2633
01:43:05,830 --> 01:43:03,040
that's amazing i mean on my website if

2634
01:43:06,629 --> 01:43:05,840
you go to 1945

2635
01:43:08,950 --> 01:43:06,639
um

2636
01:43:11,430 --> 01:43:08,960
and there's there's a

2637
01:43:14,870 --> 01:43:11,440
the whole story about the ufos over the

2638
01:43:17,030 --> 01:43:14,880
hanford plant that we have so far is is

2639
01:43:21,350 --> 01:43:17,040
on ww

2640
01:43:22,310 --> 01:43:21,360
project 1947 all one word dot com

2641
01:43:28,790 --> 01:43:22,320
and

2642
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:28,800
excellent here's here's another question

2643
01:43:32,870 --> 01:43:29,760
i i

2644
01:43:35,030 --> 01:43:32,880
i'm not familiar with this but maybe um

2645
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:35,040
one of you may be familiar about the

2646
01:43:40,950 --> 01:43:36,320
file

2647
01:43:43,270 --> 01:43:40,960
inter-dimensional does it is anyone

2648
01:43:45,910 --> 01:43:43,280
aware of that yeah yeah

2649
01:43:47,510 --> 01:43:45,920
is it is it not right

2650
01:43:49,270 --> 01:43:47,520
i'm not familiar with that one more okay

2651
01:43:50,629 --> 01:43:49,280
here there's a lot of things in there

2652
01:43:52,870 --> 01:43:50,639
you know it says

2653
01:43:55,430 --> 01:43:52,880
the fbi

2654
01:43:57,669 --> 01:43:55,440
use uses their they're reporting the

2655
01:44:00,470 --> 01:43:57,679
headquarters about information they

2656
01:44:02,149 --> 01:44:00,480
heard or they got from somebody they're

2657
01:44:03,910 --> 01:44:02,159
not endorsing it

2658
01:44:04,830 --> 01:44:03,920
you know there's one in there about you

2659
01:44:06,390 --> 01:44:04,840
know

2660
01:44:08,950 --> 01:44:06,400
finding uh

2661
01:44:10,390 --> 01:44:08,960
alien bodies and things like that yeah

2662
01:44:11,590 --> 01:44:10,400
that that's a

2663
01:44:13,990 --> 01:44:11,600
a very

2664
01:44:18,470 --> 01:44:14,000
quoted thing

2665
01:44:21,750 --> 01:44:18,480
it's from some ufo guy

2666
01:44:25,430 --> 01:44:21,760
who wrote it down in in one of his

2667
01:44:28,310 --> 01:44:25,440
publications or a letter or something

2668
01:44:32,390 --> 01:44:28,320
and people quote that as if it's coming

2669
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:32,400
from the fbi the fbi is only reporting

2670
01:44:38,070 --> 01:44:35,040
they got that document from somebody to

2671
01:44:40,470 --> 01:44:38,080
headquarters yeah that's happening

2672
01:44:42,870 --> 01:44:40,480
i can't people read

2673
01:44:44,870 --> 01:44:42,880
that's the problem the fbi couldn't draw

2674
01:44:46,390 --> 01:44:44,880
conclusions like that anyway i think

2675
01:44:47,669 --> 01:44:46,400
that would have to come from somewhere

2676
01:44:49,990 --> 01:44:47,679
else yeah

2677
01:44:52,149 --> 01:44:50,000
so you would think so yeah yeah so this

2678
01:44:54,629 --> 01:44:52,159
is this is just reporting them

2679
01:44:55,590 --> 01:44:54,639
and it says right on there we got this

2680
01:44:56,950 --> 01:44:55,600
from

2681
01:45:05,189 --> 01:44:56,960
uh

2682
01:45:10,310 --> 01:45:05,199
the

2683
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:10,320
uh san francisco

2684
01:45:15,510 --> 01:45:12,800
uh the flying roll

2685
01:45:18,310 --> 01:45:15,520
oh uh the the uh yeah the portal and

2686
01:45:19,910 --> 01:45:18,320
science borderlands science they they

2687
01:45:21,750 --> 01:45:19,920
said we got this from somebody from

2688
01:45:24,950 --> 01:45:21,760
borderland science

2689
01:45:26,629 --> 01:45:24,960
so it's somebody else's report of what

2690
01:45:29,669 --> 01:45:26,639
they thought it happened it's not the

2691
01:45:31,270 --> 01:45:29,679
fbi's report their the fbi is quoting

2692
01:45:32,870 --> 01:45:31,280
the report

2693
01:45:35,590 --> 01:45:32,880
i see okay

2694
01:45:37,350 --> 01:45:35,600
that's a hard concept to get across some

2695
01:45:39,109 --> 01:45:37,360
people but but to jan's point in the

2696
01:45:41,189 --> 01:45:39,119
defense of those that sometimes read

2697
01:45:44,550 --> 01:45:41,199
that you're only seeing an excerpt and i

2698
01:45:46,550 --> 01:45:44,560
think context and again provenance is

2699
01:45:50,470 --> 01:45:46,560
extremely important when you're trying

2700
01:45:52,149 --> 01:45:50,480
to look at these documents sure um

2701
01:45:54,470 --> 01:45:52,159
here's a question posed to you from

2702
01:45:56,790 --> 01:45:54,480
someone that i myself

2703
01:45:59,750 --> 01:45:56,800
love to explore

2704
01:46:01,990 --> 01:45:59,760
say when i'm in a a very early new

2705
01:46:03,910 --> 01:46:02,000
england house i love to explore like

2706
01:46:06,070 --> 01:46:03,920
okay i'll find a thomas jefferson letter

2707
01:46:07,030 --> 01:46:06,080
or something like really really excited

2708
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:07,040
um

2709
01:46:10,470 --> 01:46:09,040
when i find things in houses that

2710
01:46:13,590 --> 01:46:10,480
especially when people didn't know they

2711
01:46:15,430 --> 01:46:13,600
existed so i wanted to know if any of

2712
01:46:17,270 --> 01:46:15,440
you would like to share

2713
01:46:20,070 --> 01:46:17,280
um in your research where all of a

2714
01:46:22,149 --> 01:46:20,080
sudden you just go oh my goodness i

2715
01:46:24,550 --> 01:46:22,159
can't believe what i just found

2716
01:46:27,030 --> 01:46:24,560
and get really excited anyway

2717
01:46:29,350 --> 01:46:27,040
i've got one okay good i've got a great

2718
01:46:31,669 --> 01:46:29,360
story on that one uh

2719
01:46:34,550 --> 01:46:31,679
many people may know i uh investigated

2720
01:46:36,709 --> 01:46:34,560
and researched the 1950 uh farmington

2721
01:46:38,709 --> 01:46:36,719
new mexico flying saucer armada for

2722
01:46:41,189 --> 01:46:38,719
three full days broad daylight sightings

2723
01:46:43,510 --> 01:46:41,199
of dozens to hundreds of flying saucers

2724
01:46:45,669 --> 01:46:43,520
reported in the newspaper in government

2725
01:46:47,990 --> 01:46:45,679
documents from the time period i filed

2726
01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:48,000
foia requests in very in the very

2727
01:46:52,709 --> 01:46:49,840
greenwood tradition to get the

2728
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,719
unredacted osi documents uh from their

2729
01:46:56,629 --> 01:46:54,639
investigation on this case

2730
01:46:59,270 --> 01:46:56,639
uh have tracked down two of the living

2731
01:47:02,390 --> 01:46:59,280
witnesses that are still alive uh in

2732
01:47:04,950 --> 01:47:02,400
their 70s and 90s respectively

2733
01:47:06,310 --> 01:47:04,960
and uh have really i think synthesized

2734
01:47:07,590 --> 01:47:06,320
and put all this information together to

2735
01:47:09,750 --> 01:47:07,600
really give us a good idea of what

2736
01:47:12,470 --> 01:47:09,760
transpired on what was a very early but

2737
01:47:14,390 --> 01:47:12,480
very dramatic uh case when i might add

2738
01:47:16,950 --> 01:47:14,400
there were really no civilian ufo groups

2739
01:47:19,270 --> 01:47:16,960
doing active investigations uh the only

2740
01:47:21,430 --> 01:47:19,280
really serious work that was done was by

2741
01:47:23,590 --> 01:47:21,440
dr james mcdonald decade

2742
01:47:26,149 --> 01:47:23,600
about a decade and a half later

2743
01:47:27,590 --> 01:47:26,159
when he investigated that but

2744
01:47:29,189 --> 01:47:27,600
i love this story and i love that

2745
01:47:31,030 --> 01:47:29,199
question martin because i was talking to

2746
01:47:32,629 --> 01:47:31,040
these two gentlemen on the phone one day

2747
01:47:34,950 --> 01:47:32,639
as we often do

2748
01:47:37,830 --> 01:47:34,960
and i forget if i interrupted barry or

2749
01:47:40,149 --> 01:47:37,840
jan i was going through some files while

2750
01:47:42,950 --> 01:47:40,159
i was talking i had him on speaker phone

2751
01:47:44,709 --> 01:47:42,960
and i'm looking at the october 1950

2752
01:47:47,510 --> 01:47:44,719
nightcap files

2753
01:47:50,310 --> 01:47:47,520
and i come across a document

2754
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:50,320
and it's a nycap report form from

2755
01:47:53,830 --> 01:47:52,880
purportedly related to an october 1950

2756
01:47:57,189 --> 01:47:53,840
sighting

2757
01:47:59,109 --> 01:47:57,199
and i see the name hulon pace and that's

2758
01:48:01,590 --> 01:47:59,119
a very unusual name i've never known

2759
01:48:03,430 --> 01:48:01,600
anybody named hulon pace before so it

2760
01:48:05,350 --> 01:48:03,440
definitely stood out

2761
01:48:07,669 --> 01:48:05,360
if anybody else would have been leafing

2762
01:48:09,510 --> 01:48:07,679
through these files martin

2763
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:09,520
it wouldn't have even been a blip on the

2764
01:48:12,390 --> 01:48:10,560
radar

2765
01:48:14,229 --> 01:48:12,400
i knew that name because that was one of

2766
01:48:16,870 --> 01:48:14,239
the additional witnesses i uncovered

2767
01:48:19,109 --> 01:48:16,880
when i got the unredacted air force osi

2768
01:48:20,550 --> 01:48:19,119
documents so i knew the name it was one

2769
01:48:21,830 --> 01:48:20,560
of the witnesses that we hadn't known

2770
01:48:23,990 --> 01:48:21,840
about before

2771
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:24,000
i see the name hulon pace it's it's got

2772
01:48:28,070 --> 01:48:26,080
to be the same guy how many hulon pieces

2773
01:48:29,590 --> 01:48:28,080
are there out there so i pulled the

2774
01:48:31,270 --> 01:48:29,600
document out while while these two

2775
01:48:32,310 --> 01:48:31,280
gentlemen are chattering they think i'm

2776
01:48:33,510 --> 01:48:32,320
listening and i was completely

2777
01:48:35,270 --> 01:48:33,520
distracted

2778
01:48:36,470 --> 01:48:35,280
and i pulled the document out and i have

2779
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:36,480
it here now

2780
01:48:41,830 --> 01:48:39,119
uh it's an original report form that was

2781
01:48:44,310 --> 01:48:41,840
dated from the 1960s

2782
01:48:45,669 --> 01:48:44,320
interviewing hulon pace from farmington

2783
01:48:49,270 --> 01:48:45,679
new mexico

2784
01:48:51,510 --> 01:48:49,280
describing the incident from 1950

2785
01:48:52,310 --> 01:48:51,520
but he must have erroneously remembered

2786
01:48:54,550 --> 01:48:52,320
it

2787
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:54,560
from being from october of that year not

2788
01:48:57,669 --> 01:48:56,159
the spring of that year which often

2789
01:48:59,430 --> 01:48:57,679
happens with witnesses they'll think

2790
01:49:01,030 --> 01:48:59,440
back well i don't remember the month but

2791
01:49:03,109 --> 01:49:01,040
i remember i had a light jacket on and

2792
01:49:04,870 --> 01:49:03,119
it was kind of cool quite often people

2793
01:49:06,149 --> 01:49:04,880
remember things that they'll go or

2794
01:49:08,709 --> 01:49:06,159
remember something like that but they

2795
01:49:10,629 --> 01:49:08,719
won't remember the month sure but when

2796
01:49:12,950 --> 01:49:10,639
you read the report

2797
01:49:14,790 --> 01:49:12,960
it is a play by play of the incident

2798
01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:14,800
that occurred in farmington

2799
01:49:19,669 --> 01:49:17,520
but what was unique about this was the

2800
01:49:22,629 --> 01:49:19,679
document had two additional witness

2801
01:49:25,589 --> 01:49:22,639
names that no ufo researcher or

2802
01:49:26,709 --> 01:49:25,599
historian had ever heard of tied to this

2803
01:49:28,550 --> 01:49:26,719
case

2804
01:49:31,270 --> 01:49:28,560
even more important

2805
01:49:33,990 --> 01:49:31,280
we had for the first time ever

2806
01:49:36,790 --> 01:49:34,000
eyewitness sketches he sketched the

2807
01:49:38,310 --> 01:49:36,800
object both viewing it from below and

2808
01:49:41,669 --> 01:49:38,320
viewing it from the side it was

2809
01:49:45,589 --> 01:49:41,679
basically a a lenticular type of object

2810
01:49:47,030 --> 01:49:45,599
but to date in 70 years we never had any

2811
01:49:48,709 --> 01:49:47,040
witness sketches

2812
01:49:52,470 --> 01:49:48,719
we had verbal accounts we had

2813
01:49:54,470 --> 01:49:52,480
typewritten accounts but no sketches so

2814
01:49:57,990 --> 01:49:54,480
just by happenstance going through an

2815
01:50:00,470 --> 01:49:58,000
october 1950 file i found a new witness

2816
01:50:02,709 --> 01:50:00,480
report that mentioned two witnesses we

2817
01:50:05,510 --> 01:50:02,719
never had on historical record and for

2818
01:50:07,189 --> 01:50:05,520
the first time in almost 70 years we had

2819
01:50:10,149 --> 01:50:07,199
eyewitness sketches

2820
01:50:12,070 --> 01:50:10,159
unbelievable well we only have uh about

2821
01:50:13,910 --> 01:50:12,080
three minutes left to either either one

2822
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:13,920
of you can you relate to

2823
01:50:18,310 --> 01:50:16,159
having you know just sifting through or

2824
01:50:19,830 --> 01:50:18,320
even if barry even if it's a foyer

2825
01:50:22,149 --> 01:50:19,840
report just getting something that makes

2826
01:50:24,310 --> 01:50:22,159
your eyes bug out very quickly i think

2827
01:50:26,070 --> 01:50:24,320
around 1992 i went to the national

2828
01:50:28,229 --> 01:50:26,080
archives to look through government

2829
01:50:30,470 --> 01:50:28,239
documents and i spent

2830
01:50:32,709 --> 01:50:30,480
all day looking and looking coming up

2831
01:50:35,109 --> 01:50:32,719
with nothing of the leads i had and at

2832
01:50:36,790 --> 01:50:35,119
the last minute i decided well

2833
01:50:38,550 --> 01:50:36,800
let me see if i can find anything about

2834
01:50:39,910 --> 01:50:38,560
the old foo fighters

2835
01:50:42,070 --> 01:50:39,920
because

2836
01:50:45,109 --> 01:50:42,080
we didn't have a great deal on a lot of

2837
01:50:46,870 --> 01:50:45,119
stories but official documents were hard

2838
01:50:48,950 --> 01:50:46,880
to come by and

2839
01:50:51,830 --> 01:50:48,960
and uh i

2840
01:50:53,830 --> 01:50:51,840
ordered one box which contained uh

2841
01:50:55,669 --> 01:50:53,840
reports of the knight fighter squadrons

2842
01:50:58,470 --> 01:50:55,679
in europe at the time they were known to

2843
01:51:00,790 --> 01:50:58,480
have been involved in these incidents so

2844
01:51:02,310 --> 01:51:00,800
uh i went through it the box is about

2845
01:51:04,550 --> 01:51:02,320
two feet long and i didn't have a great

2846
01:51:06,390 --> 01:51:04,560
deal of time left uh before they were

2847
01:51:09,030 --> 01:51:06,400
going to close and

2848
01:51:11,910 --> 01:51:09,040
i turned up 15 documents

2849
01:51:14,310 --> 01:51:11,920
which all alluded to strange funny

2850
01:51:17,510 --> 01:51:14,320
lights in the sky and the term foo

2851
01:51:29,750 --> 01:51:17,520
fighters was actually used

2852
01:51:34,550 --> 01:51:32,629
wow excellent that's great

2853
01:51:36,470 --> 01:51:34,560
what was that that's almost 40 years

2854
01:51:39,189 --> 01:51:36,480
after the end of the second world war it

2855
01:51:40,790 --> 01:51:39,199
took us that long to find yeah official

2856
01:51:42,070 --> 01:51:40,800
documents people hadn't gone through

2857
01:51:44,790 --> 01:51:42,080
them

2858
01:51:46,390 --> 01:51:44,800
yeah well excellent well we're we're out

2859
01:51:47,990 --> 01:51:46,400
of time but um

2860
01:51:50,310 --> 01:51:48,000
dave would you like to give out where

2861
01:51:52,070 --> 01:51:50,320
people can actually um

2862
01:51:54,310 --> 01:51:52,080
peruse a little bit of the archive that

2863
01:51:57,030 --> 01:51:54,320
you have online now and how

2864
01:51:58,709 --> 01:51:57,040
um anyone can get a hold of all of you i

2865
01:51:59,589 --> 01:51:58,719
know you mentioned jan your website

2866
01:52:01,189 --> 01:51:59,599
earlier

2867
01:52:03,109 --> 01:52:01,199
yeah if you go around we just got a

2868
01:52:05,270 --> 01:52:03,119
minute here sure jen has some really

2869
01:52:07,669 --> 01:52:05,280
good material on his website uh right

2870
01:52:11,229 --> 01:52:07,679
now i'm posting uh vintage recordings

2871
01:52:15,430 --> 01:52:12,870
www.davidmarlerufo.com if you go to the

2872
01:52:17,189 --> 01:52:15,440
audio archives tab you'll get a sampling

2873
01:52:18,950 --> 01:52:17,199
of some of these vintage reel-to-reel

2874
01:52:20,709 --> 01:52:18,960
recordings that quite literally may be

2875
01:52:22,950 --> 01:52:20,719
the only recordings that exist from some

2876
01:52:25,270 --> 01:52:22,960
of these old radio shows dating back to

2877
01:52:27,510 --> 01:52:25,280
the late 1950s so some really rare

2878
01:52:29,750 --> 01:52:27,520
vintage material and so i would

2879
01:52:31,510 --> 01:52:29,760
encourage people to go there yes i love

2880
01:52:33,750 --> 01:52:31,520
that by the way i've listened to some

2881
01:52:36,149 --> 01:52:33,760
they're really fascinating

2882
01:52:42,830 --> 01:52:36,159
um and jan just throw out your website

2883
01:52:47,030 --> 01:52:45,910
www.project1947.com and uh

2884
01:52:51,669 --> 01:52:47,040
what i what

2885
01:52:54,229 --> 01:52:51,679
is i i'm trying to duplicate things that

2886
01:52:58,870 --> 01:52:54,239
i've written to congress about

2887
01:53:00,550 --> 01:52:58,880
about former investigations before 2004

2888
01:53:02,070 --> 01:53:00,560
and it's just not the air force there's

2889
01:53:04,310 --> 01:53:02,080
a lot of people that

2890
01:53:07,430 --> 01:53:04,320
picked this subject up and worked with

2891
01:53:09,830 --> 01:53:07,440
it for uh uh maybe a year at a time and

2892
01:53:12,310 --> 01:53:09,840
then dropped it again so i'm trying to

2893
01:53:15,830 --> 01:53:12,320
tell them this is where this information

2894
01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:15,840
exists but we can't get at it

2895
01:53:21,990 --> 01:53:19,199
okay great uh barry real quickly can

2896
01:53:24,149 --> 01:53:22,000
people get uh can get a hold of you or i

2897
01:53:26,870 --> 01:53:24,159
see you're on twitter

2898
01:53:28,070 --> 01:53:26,880
i'm on twitter but i'm benign uh i don't

2899
01:53:29,510 --> 01:53:28,080
get it

2900
01:53:31,430 --> 01:53:29,520
i'm gonna

2901
01:53:34,149 --> 01:53:31,440
you contact either of these other two

2902
01:53:37,430 --> 01:53:34,159
gentlemen what about your archives yeah

2903
01:53:39,669 --> 01:53:37,440
that's a catalog i'm gonna be scanning

2904
01:53:42,950 --> 01:53:39,679
things and the scans are more important

2905
01:53:45,270 --> 01:53:42,960
than a name of an article right

2906
01:53:47,510 --> 01:53:45,280
right actually you can you you've got

2907
01:53:50,229 --> 01:53:47,520
your publications too

2908
01:53:53,030 --> 01:53:50,239
yeah and but that should go to

2909
01:53:55,350 --> 01:53:53,040
check out dave's or or friends i i'll be

2910
01:53:57,030 --> 01:53:55,360
shifting things over to them like that

2911
01:53:59,270 --> 01:53:57,040
and uh okay

2912
01:54:00,870 --> 01:53:59,280
in scanned images well i love how you're

2913
01:54:03,510 --> 01:54:00,880
almost arguing at the very end that's

2914
01:54:05,669 --> 01:54:03,520
good all right

2915
01:54:09,669 --> 01:54:05,679
thanks so much it's been real enjoyable

2916
01:54:12,790 --> 01:54:11,750
all you iconic people thanks so much for

2917
01:54:13,750 --> 01:54:12,800
what you do

2918
01:54:14,629 --> 01:54:13,760
thank you

2919
01:54:16,390 --> 01:54:14,639
all right

2920
01:54:19,270 --> 01:54:16,400
so thank you everyone we'll be back next

2921
01:54:20,950 --> 01:54:19,280
week with martin keller and i appreciate

2922
01:54:23,910 --> 01:54:20,960
you watching and we'll be back at the

2923
01:54:26,390 --> 01:54:23,920
regular time i should say on tuesday 6

2924
01:54:28,149 --> 01:54:26,400
to 8 pm eastern standard time take care

2925
01:54:30,890 --> 01:54:28,159
and remember to keep your eyes to the

2926
01:54:38,790 --> 01:54:30,900
sky

2927
01:54:46,970 --> 01:54:40,210
so